Critique my Italy plans

[M.Kaplan]

Roscioli’s burrata with black truffle pearls…

[Jay_Miller]

@Ian Sutton

Ah my error. Never did get my head around the American MM/DD/CCYY date format.

I thought of that while writing my post but decided that listing 9/8, 9/9, 9/10 … 9/17 etc would make it clear enough that further clarification wasn’t needed.

[Ian_Sutton]

Never assume your audience have an aptitude for logical deduction

[ClarkstonMark]

@M.Kaplan

Roscioli’s burrata with black truffle pearls…

Yes that burrata is phenomenal!

[Jason_R]

You’re right about Roscioli’s burrata. And that reminded me about the Cantabrian sardines on lovely toasted bread with either lemon or vanilla butter - each phenomenal in their own way!

[Jay_Miller]

Thank you to everyone for the Roscioli recommendations! We have a reservation there for the first night now. If we’re awake enough we’ll walk back to the hotel from there but between jet lag and having to be up at 5am the next day for our Vatican tour we’ll have to see.

Now to review all the shopping and markets which Richard recommended and see what I can slot in where.

[James_Sanders]

@Richard Malloy

Rome: so, you don’t have much time. Don’t waste it wandering aimlessly through Trastevere’s tourist traps or throngs of clubbing kids on Friday night (there’s good reason to visit this beautiful neighborhood, but there’s also that). Also, don’t waste any meal hoping you’ll just happen to find a worthwhile place. You might. But you’ll need a little luck.

Take a nap when you arrive if you need to, but get going as soon as you’re able. You’ll wake up, trust me!

Friday: For your first night in Rome, I’d recommend casual cucina Romana, then a long, late-night, after-dinner walk through the centro storico. (especially in August, daytime is the worst time to visit the major monuments, so do it after midnight!). Make your first night special as you don’t have nearly enough time to do anything but scratch the surface of the eternal city.

You might start the evening early with a negroni or aperol spritz at the gorgeous bar in the Hotel Hassler. You’re right at the Spanish Steps, so head on down to the Piazza di Spagna afterwards and head directly into the heart of the Centro Storico. The nightly passeggiata on Via del Corso will be in full swing.

Consider Armando al Pantheon http://www.armandoalpantheon.it/ for dinner (get reservations). Absolutely classic, utterly unpretentious, as popular with the locals as the tourists. In addition to the classic roman pastas (carbonara, l’amatriciana, gricia, cacio e pepe), you can try excellent versions of quinto quarto classics like trippa alla romana or rigatoni con la pajata.

Or you might start on the other side of central Rome in Trastevere with wine at a nice enoteca or negroni or aperol spritz on Piazza di Santa Maria. Then jump across the river to the Campo and consider eating at Salumeria Roscioli http://www.salumeriaroscioli.com/restaurant/ for classic Roman pasta dishes, hams and salumi, wine, AND NOTHING ELSE. Get reservations. After a long lingering dinner, stroll through the Campo di Fiore, then keep going to the Piazza Navona, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain.

Get lost. You’re never really far from where you might want to be. Just wander and be as mindful of the nooks and crannies as you are of the glorious Bernini fountains.

Sunday: it’s all about the lunch, so much so that many restaurants aren’t open for dinner. Again, cucina Romana! Since you’re visiting the Coliseum that morning, I’d definitely consider lunch in Testaccio which is just south of the ruins (one Metro stop if you’re using public transportation). I’d recommend something like Flavio al Velavevodetto http://www.flavioalvelavevodetto.it/ or Perilli (last meal before the rapture/earthquake/end of days: perilli - Elizabeth Minchilli).

On Sunday night, pizza is often the late-night default option. Maybe Emma Pizzeria Con Cucina to sample the other classic Roman pizza style - cracker thin crust - since you’re probably going to Pizzarium for pizza al taglio.

And, again, late at night is when you want to stroll the city, in the relative cool with fewer crowds. The monuments are lit up gloriously. This is when the magic of this city permeates the air, when rounding a dark corner can bring you face to face with some astonishingly grand beauty … if you go late enough, you can have it almost all to yourself.

Many trips to Italy over the years and just spent a 3-month sabbatical studying Italian in Florence. This is good advice all the way around. I would add Hosteria Romana, near the Trevi Fountain as another classic. Their carbonara is worth a trip to Rome all by itself.

[James_Sanders]

@Richard Malloy

Rome: so, you don’t have much time. Don’t waste it wandering aimlessly through Trastevere’s tourist traps or throngs of clubbing kids on Friday night (there’s good reason to visit this beautiful neighborhood, but there’s also that). Also, don’t waste any meal hoping you’ll just happen to find a worthwhile place. You might. But you’ll need a little luck.

Take a nap when you arrive if you need to, but get going as soon as you’re able. You’ll wake up, trust me!

Friday: For your first night in Rome, I’d recommend casual cucina Romana, then a long, late-night, after-dinner walk through the centro storico. (especially in August, daytime is the worst time to visit the major monuments, so do it after midnight!). Make your first night special as you don’t have nearly enough time to do anything but scratch the surface of the eternal city.

You might start the evening early with a negroni or aperol spritz at the gorgeous bar in the Hotel Hassler. You’re right at the Spanish Steps, so head on down to the Piazza di Spagna afterwards and head directly into the heart of the Centro Storico. The nightly passeggiata on Via del Corso will be in full swing.

Consider Armando al Pantheon http://www.armandoalpantheon.it/ for dinner (get reservations). Absolutely classic, utterly unpretentious, as popular with the locals as the tourists. In addition to the classic roman pastas (carbonara, l’amatriciana, gricia, cacio e pepe), you can try excellent versions of quinto quarto classics like trippa alla romana or rigatoni con la pajata.

Or you might start on the other side of central Rome in Trastevere with wine at a nice enoteca or negroni or aperol spritz on Piazza di Santa Maria. Then jump across the river to the Campo and consider eating at Salumeria Roscioli http://www.salumeriaroscioli.com/restaurant/ for classic Roman pasta dishes, hams and salumi, wine, AND NOTHING ELSE. Get reservations. After a long lingering dinner, stroll through the Campo di Fiore, then keep going to the Piazza Navona, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain.

Get lost. You’re never really far from where you might want to be. Just wander and be as mindful of the nooks and crannies as you are of the glorious Bernini fountains.

Sunday: it’s all about the lunch, so much so that many restaurants aren’t open for dinner. Again, cucina Romana! Since you’re visiting the Coliseum that morning, I’d definitely consider lunch in Testaccio which is just south of the ruins (one Metro stop if you’re using public transportation). I’d recommend something like Flavio al Velavevodetto http://www.flavioalvelavevodetto.it/ or Perilli (last meal before the rapture/earthquake/end of days: perilli - Elizabeth Minchilli).

On Sunday night, pizza is often the late-night default option. Maybe Emma Pizzeria Con Cucina to sample the other classic Roman pizza style - cracker thin crust - since you’re probably going to Pizzarium for pizza al taglio.

And, again, late at night is when you want to stroll the city, in the relative cool with fewer crowds. The monuments are lit up gloriously. This is when the magic of this city permeates the air, when rounding a dark corner can bring you face to face with some astonishingly grand beauty … if you go late enough, you can have it almost all to yourself.

Many trips to Italy over the years and just spent a 3-month sabbatical studying Italian in Florence. This is good advice all the way around. I would add Hosteria Romana, near the Trevi Fountain as another classic. Their carbonara is worth a trip to Rome all by itself.

[Jay_Miller]

I’ve updated the schedule above. One bit of good news, I got an email today that my Coliseum tour was postponed until the afternoon which means we can go to the market at Ponte Milvio easily in the morning.

One question - after consulting train schedules it looks like we’d only have 3 1/2 hours in Lucca and I’m debating whether that’s worth the 2 hour round trip. On the one hand there will be no problem filling that time. One the other hand it’s more than half as much time traveling as visiting. On the third hand, Michael’s point still holds: “An afternoon in Lucca, please. You’ll be headed back soon once you see all the stuff you have to pass by.”

[brigcampbell]

WTF? Gelato only once?

The hill towns of Lucca, San Giagmiono and Volterra worth the effort.

[Ian_Sutton]

Hi Jay
I’d drop Lucca.

Where are you getting 2 hr round trip (from Firenze) to Lucca by train? I’m getting ~ 1hr 50 mins EACH WAY with minimum 1 change on trenitalia. Is it an Italo train route?

However google maps shows a ‘vaibus’ route at 1hr 10 mins, not especially regularly. Then factor in getting to the bus station, buying a ticket, leaving enough leeway to make sure you don’t miss it, plus the same on the return, and you’ll be looking at 3 hours round trip minimum. That in effect means more time travelling than in the place you are visiting. Doable, but IMO a great example of trying to see more and ending up seeing less.

Is the Uffizi tour movable to the middle of the day, or at least late morning? This gives the option of a relative lie in (8:15am appointment!! it’s a holiday, not boot camp ) , or a morning stroll around popular locations before the tourist hordes are there en-masse. Also time to have a mid-morning coffee - and for many finding a charming piazza to take coffee outside is far from a waste of 30 mins, but a highlight. The charge may be steep for a fancy piazza in Firenze, but you bought your coffee, the seat is yours for as long as you want it, and it gives a great chance to observe and take it all in.

Regards
Ian

[brigcampbell]

Ian is a stud on the travel forum.

[Jay_Miller]

Train from Florence to Lucca | ItaliaRail

Shows a 1 hour 16 minute travel time (which does, of course, come to 2 hours 32 minutes round trip so my bad there).

[Ian_Sutton]

Really odd - just re-checked Trenitalia and these direct trains are now showing. Maybe I picked an odd day (with engineering works?). Sorry for the confusion.

So yes, 2.5 hours actually on the train, though Firenze hotel to centre of Lucca might be ~ 2 hours (it’s 10-15 min walk from the station in Lucca to the centre, not far compared to many, plus hotel to Santa Maria Station walk or taxi, plus some safety margin to avoid missing the trains).

I reckon that ~ 4 hours ‘door to door’ travel would be a lot less pleasing / more tiring than many things you could do in Firenze. Much as I liked Lucca, I’m not sure it would make up for the travelling (on a simple regionale train - different for the fancier/faster Freccia trains which are more of a joy, yet still reasonably priced). I’d probably want to put a good aside for 45 mins rooting around for old gems in Enoteca Vanni’s cellar, further reducing time to appreciate a rewarding small city.

[Jay_Miller]

@Ian Sutton

Is the Uffizi tour movable to the middle of the day, or at least late morning? This gives the option of a relative lie in (8:15am appointment!! it’s a holiday, not boot camp ) , or a morning stroll around popular locations before the tourist hordes are there en-masse.

My thought in scheduling the early Uffizi tour was precisely that it is a popular location and would be less crowded that time of day.

Best news is that temps in Rome and Florence are supposed to drop significantly starting tomorrow though we may be seeing some rain while we’re there. But I’ll take rain any day over the heat they’ve been enduring for the last month.

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

I’m afraid that your plans suffer from the weakness that most of my friends’ Italy tour plans suffer from - you leave and come home

[Ian_Sutton]

Hi Jay
Fair enough. Worth considering that elongated coffee stop in a nice location when you get out of the Uffizi. Even in a tourist city, it is great to sit & observe & take the vibe in. Perhaps even time for a pre-lunch glass of something nice?

Good news on the temperature drop, and for many cities rain isn’t a handicap as so much time is spent indoors or under cover

regards
Ian

[Jay_Miller]

Layover in Heathrow where we had some flat whites, we’re now in Rome, have picked up our personal wifi and are headed to the train.

[Ian_Sutton]

Hope it all works out well!

[Jason_R]

Would love to hear how it all works out. Have a fabulous time!