Do you double decant before BYO to restaurants?

[AndrewH]

Please note that the bottle should be resealed before you go out because having an open container in a vehicle or in public may violate the District’s prohibition on open containers. Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

Pro-tip: if you put it in a brown paper bag, you can take it anywhere in public!

[David_Glasser]

Thanks Noah. Wonder why the restaurant staff has to do the opening? Do you think that the restaurateurs asked for that language so they could track the number of bottles for corkage fees?

I suspect it’s designed to avoid having people put something else (stronger) in a bottle, which of course is defeated by allowing a double decant.

Good point. You can get very drunk on wine. But it does give the restaurant staff the means to cut off a person or group that has had too much.

[Steven_Orloff]

I often use the slow oxygenation method (#Francous Andouze). Pull the cork in the morning (mostly for younger wines). Taste. If good. Leave open all day. Re-cork before going out. The law in Minnesota is strict for open bottle. If it is in your trunk but you can access it from inside a car, it may be a problem.

[Oliver_V]

I once took an '83 Margaux to a restaurant having double decanted and recorked it with a synthetic cork taken from some cheap wine I used to cook with. After I asked the waiter to open it he disappeared for a bit, then returned and smugly informed me (rather loudly, so pretty much the whole restaurant could hear) the wine was fake.

[Paul_R1]

We take wine often and it is always open, I generally open in the morning, whether I DD before dinner depends on the wine. One time I had a server say that it was against the law and then brought over a manager who, after talking it through and the manager deciding that I wasn’t from the ABC board, said fine. The manager knows who we are now and is always very accommodating. I use an Ah-so so I could pretty easily shove a cork all the way back in the bottle but I don’t. If a police officer pulled you over and raised hell over a bottle of wine that was essentially full, I think you have given them another reason to harass you.

Love the '83 Margaux story.

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

This is the answer for Washington DC.

There are also 50 states with 50 different answers. In some states, like MD, it may not even be the state’s ABC answer, but rather each individual county’s answer. In some places it could even be up to the municipality.

This is the Answer, as official as it gets!

Dear Noah,

Nothing prohibits you, as a customer, from pre-decanting a beverage at home, returning it to the bottle, and resealing it for use at a licensed establishment that allows corkage or BYOB.

Please note that the bottle should be resealed before you go out because having an open container in a vehicle or in public may violate the District’s prohibition on open containers. Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

The official corkage regulation is below for your reference:

717. CORKING FEE
     717.1 The holder of an on-premises retailer’s license may permit a patron to bring to and consume on the licensed premises an alcoholic beverage that the licensee is permitted to sell or serve under its on-premises retailer’s license; provided that the alcoholic beverage is opened by an employee of the establishment, However, the holder of an on-premises retailer’s license shall not permit any alcoholic beverage opened on the licensed premises to be removed from the licensed premises.
     717.2 The holder of an on-premises retailer’s license shall be permitted to charge a corking fee provided that the corking fee is disclosed to the patron prior to the opening of the alcoholic beverage.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Berman
Assistant General Counsel
Alcoholic Beverage Regulation Administration

*For additional assistance, questions, comments, or concerns, please call ABRA at 202-442-4423 or reply to this email.

[Gary_Ahearn]

Or I do it and remove the capsule and ram the cork all the way back in flush–then it’s less obvious that it has been opened.

+1. Have done this many times and never had a problem. Many bottles don’t have a capsule, and if you push the cork all the way in, who’s to say it’s been opened?? I just can’t see the waitstaff questioning a customer if the bottle looks like it hasn’t been opened.

[John_Kight]

Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

So does this mean that if you open the bottle on your own (such that the “establishment” is not required to do so) before bringing it in, that you are free to have the bottle “returned” to you?

[David_Glasser]

Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

So does this mean that if you open the bottle on your own (such that the “establishment” is not required to do so) before bringing it in, that you are free to have the bottle “returned” to you?

It might look that way from the literal wording of the law but I doubt they anticipated that technicality when they wrote it. If I owned a restaurant I wouldn’t bet my liquor license on it. A place we like and visit in DC will not allow us to leave with remnants of bottles we opened. Restaurant feels at risk if they send you home with an open bottle, regardless of who opened it or where.

[K_John_Joseph]

I like to have the somm open my bottle the second I arrive so I can slo ox it while looking at the appetizers. I only double decant when my bottles are severely travel shocked, and on root days, especially if the wine is biodynamically farmed.

[G_Bienstock]

Here is my work around. Ditch the corks! I decant into a red or white screwcap bottle and open the cap at the table right after I am seated. Sure the label does not match the wine, but who cares.

[Alan_Rath]

Here is my work around. Ditch the corks! I decant into a red or white screwcap bottle and open the cap at the table right after I am seated. Sure the label does not match the wine, but who cares.

now that is clever.

[AndrewH]

Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

So does this mean that if you open the bottle on your own (such that the “establishment” is not required to do so) before bringing it in, that you are free to have the bottle “returned” to you?

It might look that way from the literal wording of the law but I doubt they anticipated that technicality when they wrote it. If I owned a restaurant I wouldn’t bet my liquor license on it. A place we like and visit in DC will not allow us to leave with remnants of bottles we opened. Restaurant feels at risk if they send you home with an open bottle, regardless of who opened it or where.

A bit odd, because in DC you’re supposed to be able to take home the remainder of a bottle in one of those tamper-evident bags.

[Craig_G]

I like to have the somm open my bottle the second I arrive so I can slo ox it while looking at the appetizers. I only double decant when my bottles are severely travel shocked, and on root days, especially if the wine is biodynamically farmed.

You can avoid these latter risks if you ask the kitchen to stuff a small cow horn into your baked potato.

[David_Glasser]

I like to have the somm open my bottle the second I arrive so I can slo ox it while looking at the appetizers. I only double decant when my bottles are severely travel shocked, and on root days, especially if the wine is biodynamically farmed.

You can avoid these latter risks if you ask the kitchen to stuff a small cow horn into your baked potato.

With or without the manure?

[David_Glasser]

So does this mean that if you open the bottle on your own (such that the “establishment” is not required to do so) before bringing it in, that you are free to have the bottle “returned” to you?

It might look that way from the literal wording of the law but I doubt they anticipated that technicality when they wrote it. If I owned a restaurant I wouldn’t bet my liquor license on it. A place we like and visit in DC will not allow us to leave with remnants of bottles we opened. Restaurant feels at risk if they send you home with an open bottle, regardless of who opened it or where.

A bit odd, because in DC you’re supposed to be able to take home the remainder of a bottle in one of those tamper-evident bags.

Interesting. Never seen one of those tamper-evident bags. And it doesn’t seem consistent wither the response Noah got:

This is the Answer, as official as it gets!

Dear Noah,

Nothing prohibits you, as a customer, from pre-decanting a beverage at home, returning it to the bottle, and resealing it for use at a licensed establishment that allows corkage or BYOB.

Please note that the bottle should be resealed before you go out because having an open container in a vehicle or in public may violate the District’s prohibition on open containers. Moreover, please be aware that an establishment cannot return a bottle to the customer once the establishment opens it.

The official corkage regulation is below for your reference:

717. CORKING FEE
     717.1 The holder of an on-premises retailer’s license may permit a patron to bring to and consume on the licensed premises an alcoholic beverage that the licensee is permitted to sell or serve under its on-premises retailer’s license; provided that the alcoholic beverage is opened by an employee of the establishment, However, the holder of an on-premises retailer’s license shall not permit any alcoholic beverage opened on the licensed premises to be removed from the licensed premises.
     717.2 The holder of an on-premises retailer’s license shall be permitted to charge a corking fee provided that the corking fee is disclosed to the patron prior to the opening of the alcoholic beverage.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Berman
Assistant General Counsel
Alcoholic Beverage Regulation Administration

*For additional assistance, questions, comments, or concerns, please call ABRA at 202-442-4423 or reply to this email.

[AndrewH]

It might look that way from the literal wording of the law but I doubt they anticipated that technicality when they wrote it. If I owned a restaurant I wouldn’t bet my liquor license on it. A place we like and visit in DC will not allow us to leave with remnants of bottles we opened. Restaurant feels at risk if they send you home with an open bottle, regardless of who opened it or where.

A bit odd, because in DC you’re supposed to be able to take home the remainder of a bottle in one of those tamper-evident bags.

Interesting. Never seen one of those tamper-evident bags. And it doesn’t seem consistent wither the response Noah got:

The law in DC has been in place about 10 years, as excerpted below. The law implicitly allows only bottles purchased on premises to qualify (the receipt requirement), making the rule Noah cited not inconsistent with it. That said, the policy should be the same, in part because the law helps avoid overconsumption of wine (oh, let’s finish the bottle! before driving home). I’ve occasionally taken advantage of the “wine doggie bag”.

DC Code 15-113:

(5)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, a restaurant license (R) under
this section shall authorize the licensee to permit a patron to remove one partially consumed
bottle of wine for consumption off premises.
(B) A partially consumed bottle of wine that is to be removed from the premises must be
securely resealed by the licensee or its employee before removal from the premises.
(C) The partially consumed bottle shall be placed in a bag or other container that is secured
in such a manner that it is visibly apparent if the container has been subsequently opened or
tampered with, and a dated receipt for the bottle of wine shall be provided by the licensee
and attached to the container.

[Bryan_Carr]

I once took an '83 Margaux to a restaurant having double decanted and recorked it with a synthetic cork taken from some cheap wine I used to cook with. After I asked the waiter to open it he disappeared for a bit, then returned and smugly informed me (rather loudly, so pretty much the whole restaurant could hear) the wine was fake.

Why do some people have absolutely ZERO chill when wine is involved?

I like to have the somm open my bottle the second I arrive so I can slo ox it while looking at the appetizers. I only double decant when my bottles are severely travel shocked, and on root days, especially if the wine is biodynamically farmed.

You can avoid these latter risks if you ask the kitchen to stuff a small cow horn into your baked potato.

This guy gets it