Lowell,
As for the grower champagnes mentioned above, check out the Laherte Blanc de Blanc Brut Nature or Vilmart Grand Cellier Brut for two that emphasize the more acid driven approach. I’m sure others can mention dozens more, including other cuvées from these 2 growers.
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A few comments:
- Based on the initial post, I am going to take yeasty as being a synonym to doughy/bready.
- In the case of Charles Heidsieck, I would be interested in knowing which NV release (base vintage, disgorgement date) was tasted.
- I don’t think you can equate the way yeasty/doughy is described in the first post to special dosage/liqueur formulas or yeast strains
- The dosage level can have an effect, but normally not in a yeasty or fresh dough/bread type of way
- With Charles Heidsieck, I believe you are seeing the effect of reserve wines stretching back a couple decades combined with how those older wines age both pre and post disgorgement. In general, many of the recent Charles Heidsieck NV releases have been rather rich in doughy and bready notes. Not all, but many - especially the wines that have seen a good amount of time aging prior to disgorgement.
- Charles Heidsieck, Clicquot, and Krug are all examples of producers that have and utilize a huge library of reserve wines in their NV offering. All of these are richer and I have had folks describe them to me as yeasty (even if I wouldn’t use that term).
- As far as additives to the liqueur d’expedition, it is illegal and has been for a long time to have anything but sugar (natural or derived) and wine in the mix. At one point in time (long ago) anything was allowed and you had all sorts of spices and brandies added. At this point in time, most liqueur d’expedition is tweaked with the way the wine used is aged, how old it is, what type of sugar, etc… It is amazing how much of a difference it can make even at such a small volume. Also, while I don’t know of anyone still using brandy/Cognac today, I do know some that did as recently as 10-15 years ago.
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Lots of good advice here and upthread. I will second the focus on Cotes de Blancs and Cramant. Some excellent growers that generally do not have dominant fruit, in my opinion, would include:
Agrapart
Larmandier-Bernier
Diebolt-Vallois(the grower with the largest holdings in Cramant, and I prefer the basic NV BdB to the Prestige)
Lassaigne (had a great bottle of Le Cotet two nights ago)
Bereche
Doyard
Lallement
Gimmonet
Marc Hebrart
Mousse
Lots of others, but those are the regulars at our house.
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- Chambers Street
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My bottle of Charles Heidseick had a base vintage of 2011 and was disgorged in 2018.
I live in Baldwin which is South Shore Nassau County.
Ouch, probably the lousiest recent vintage in Champagne. Even though Heidsieck uses a lot of reserve wines so that the proportion of base vintage is relatively small in relation to other producers’ NVs, I’ve been trying to actively avoid that particular vintage. As with other producers too, of course.
It could be worth trying another bottle of Charlie from a better base vintage?
Totally fair not to like autolysis-driven notes in Champagne, and I have heard that one before. Personally, I like it, but I also feel like it gets magnified in certain Champagnes when there is a lot of reserve wine, and the blend includes a high percentage of red grapes. In most Blanc de Blancs I find the bread/brioche notes to be more on the elegant side, so that might be more your ally. However, I would also refrain from taking a strong stance like that too early. With the advent of growers and the multiplication of styles in the region, your taste is bound to change the more you taste. For example, it took me a while to like acid-driven Champagnes, but step by step I’m getting there, and I am liking less and less dosage as time goes on. You might experience the inverse and appreciate the brioche notes - it probably is somewhat an acquired taste, not unlike oxidative notes.
Are they limited on what kind of sugar they can add?
MCR = moût concentré rectifié; in English, RCM = rectified concentrated must, i.e. grape must that’s de-acidified and had non-sugar components removed. Quite a few producers use this, the logic being that it is the most “natural” addition. One example would be Ulysse Collin.
Cane sugar - the most traditional, seems to take the longest to integrate post disgorgement. One example of a house that uses cane sugar would be Laurent-Perrier.
Beet sugar
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Lowell,
Just to make sure, from the back label, was the bottle put in the cellars in 2011 or 2012? I’m mainly asking because, in 750mL bottle format, in the US, you usually don’t see the 2011 base vintage (laid in chalk cellars in 2012) of the Charles Heidsieck’s Brut Reserve. The 2010 and 2012 base vintges were much more common.
Regardless of whether the base vintge is 2010 or 2011, your bottle saw not only a lot of older reserve wines, but saw a lot of time aging on its lees prior to disgorgement. Much more than a Louis Roeder NV Brut Premier (which is normally around 3 years) or most other comparable NV wines. Personally, I really like the depth this brings to the wine, but it results in a deep, rich, doughy, bready, biscuity, nutty profile. Recently I did a tasting of the Charles Heidsieck Brut Reserve with base vintages of 2010-2015 all disgorged in 2018. The wine showed very different as it got younger. There is still a richer style and it probably won’t be your favorite, but I bet you would enjoy a 2014 or 2015 base vintage of this wine a lot more than the bottle you had.
Charles Heidsieck never meant to age their NV Brut Reserve for as long as your bottle, but sales were slow. Now sales are above expectations and they are going through bottles too fast so base vintages are getting towards the younger side and too young IMO. Starting with the 2016 base vintage oak comes into the mix so things change again.
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Hi neighbor! I’m RVC
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Totes. The logic does seem very harmonious.
Mike Evans shared a beautiful Ulysse Collin with me in the Fall (I believe the '12 Les Pierrieres); I believe he said your earnest praise really motivated him to obtain 
.
Love the thread- some good info shared especially by William and Brad who addressed the “yeasty” component with depth and accuracy. Thanks for the posts.
Nick, it was actually the 2015 Les Maillons and I’ve been a big fan of Olivier’s wines since drinking a 2006 BdB with Kevin McKenna (one of the owners of a US importer) several years ago. Your memory isn’t completely off, though, as I recall mentioning in passing that William had given the Les Maillons an extremely favorable review (98 points, FWIW).
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Love the thread- some good info shared especially by William and Brad who addressed the “yeasty” component with depth and accuracy. Thanks for the posts.
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Ha, thanks for clearing up my half-truths! This is what I get when I go off imperfect record keeping… I actually recall the '15 part, but then when I looked at our email thread (in the lead-up) I saw your first proposal.
I shall now attempt to seal the Les Maillons into Memory. Really excellent, particularly with our little amuse with the caviar.
MCR is an interesting topic. Many say they use it for how ‘natural’ and neutral it is. I would argue that taking grape must that doesn’t come from Champagne and then processing it until it becomes a concentrated sweetner (that is sweeter than sugar in equal quantities) is actually more foreign than adding some cane or beet sugar to Champagne wine, but there are different ways of looking at things. There are some producers who do make the sweetener used in their liqueur de tirage and/or liquer d’expedition from their own grape musts/juice, but it still isn’t all that common and many times the end result hasn’t come off all that well IMO. I believe that most who utilize commercial MCR do it because it is easier to use/store. For a smaller producer, creating and storing traditional liqueur can be a headache.
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Thanks, Blake! If it helps people understand that a lot of the aromatics often ascribed to “autolysis” in fact have more complicated origins than that, so much the better… but this is definitely among the more technical subjects with which wine writers have to engage.
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Ah it says “laid in chalk cellars in 2011”, so that would be 2010 vintage?