I’ve co-fermented Viognier (about 2-3%) with our Lovers Lane Syrah since before we were bonded. It’s my homage to Cote Rotie. Having worked with that fruit since 1996 (and having tried it without cofermenting) my own experience is that it lends more interesting armoatics, and leads to a more supple mid-palate.
On the Viognier / Syrah combo, I’d be surprised if anyone was putting the two together post elevage, as opposed to cofermenting, though not terribly surprised 
blending finsihed wines doesn’t achieve the same result. it’s the co-poymeriazation that takes place during cofermenting that makes the difference. The two grapes with the highest co-factor (bigest impact of co-fermenting measured imperically) are Syrah and Viognier- which is borne out by taste/palate for me more than numbers.
I believe he co-fermented for the XX I wrote up last week… but I’m sending him a link to this in hopes he’ll clarify.
As I said, I’d be surprised. But I’ve seen dummer, so I wouldn’t be that surprised.
Carole Meredith has posted how adding a white grape like vioginer to syrah actually makes the wine darker…
We’ve done both, but actually prefer to co-ferment grenache and syrah, and blend the viognier in later because we can fine tune the aromatics so they are not overwhelmingly floral or citrusy. Even a tiny amount of viognier can have quite an impact.
Carole Meredith has posted how adding a white grape like vioginer to syrah actually makes the wine darker…
This phenomenon is known as co-pigmentation:
The Copigmentation of Anthocyanins and Its Role in the Color of Red Wine: A Critical Review | American Journal of Enology and Viticulture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I knew I’d heard that but couldn’t remember the source. Thanks, Mel.
Hi,
Indeed adding a white to a red is a co-pigmentation co-factor and they really can darken them up. All for naught in my case as I don’t destem the fruit. Those stems suck out the color and you’re left with lighter looking wines. Personally I don’t care as I can’t taste color, but I know lots of consumers only think dark wines are good.
In any case, Melissa thanks for the heads up. So yes, co-fermenting is good. I go all in early with anywhere from 5 to 25% Viognier into the Syrah right after weighing. Just sort and fill up a fermentor and you’re good.
In 07 it works out there were two Syrah bottlings, one at 7% and the XX at 20%. Very fun, but definitely cool climate Syrah done in an old school style. I love them. I’m not sure where the 08’s are going to land…
Thanks for the link, I’d heard that but could never find out why. Fascinating! :geek:
You’re welcome.
AFAIK, it’s still not that well-understood. It was on the front of Roger Boulton’s mind for a while but I think has fallen to the wayside a bit.
It’s a really interesting phenomenon because it’s literally a 2 + 2 = 5 situation. That’s actually how it was first observed, as I recall: When a red wine is diluted by half, why is the color still 65% of what it was? Previously, it had been thought that red wine color was strictly a concentration of pigments issue.
Co-fermenting Viognier with Syrah has become pretty common in the past few years. We usually do, but the timing didn’t work out this year.
i’ve gotta say that my own experience with this is I get way more color employing a more aggressive fermentation approach (heat, punchdowns etc) than I do from cofermenting. I’ve sen the papers on it (by people who actually have a real scientific background) but I’ve never felt that it improves color- even when I did seperate lots side by side one with/one without. For me color ain’t that big a deal, but aromatics and mouthfeel are everything.
i’ve gotta say that my own experience with this is I get way more color employing a more aggressive fermentation approach (heat, punchdowns etc) than I do from cofermenting. I’ve sen the papers on it (by people who actually have a real scientific background) but I’ve never felt that it improves color- even when I did seperate lots side by side one with/one without. For me color ain’t that big a deal, but aromatics and mouthfeel are everything.
IIRC, the other conclusion was that copig was responsible for a lot of color in red wines, but that it was difficult to get stable and often contributed less and less over time.
Aromatics are #1 on my list of important wine attributes. All things equal, I’d prefer a nice rich dark color, but it’s a couple notches down the list. Things are not always all equal, of course.
Ive done small lots (3 or 4 barrels) in 07 and 08 of Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris skins. We have seen a lower complex anthocyanin level both years for the co-fermented lot compared to the control. The aromatics of the co-ferm has been more floral and sexy, but you have to watch out for tannin extraction. Love the nose but so far it looks as if co pigmentation doesn’t occur between Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris.
We have been co fermenting Viognier with Syrah for the last five years(3%-10%, depending on the vintage). It definately darkens the wine, giving more of a purplish hue. I love the aromatics it brings and seems to brighten up/lift the finish, as well as add to mid pallate volume. We have been doing some whole cluster with the co ferms and that takes to aromas to another level with the purfume and spice. Each vineyard is different though, in terms of the character the stems bring to the wine.
Great to be over here!
We are a little slow up here in the woods! [imnewhere.gif]
So, to recap, it seems co-fermenting different varieties improves aromatics and in some cases, depending on the grapes used, color? Both these seem positive.
Any negative effects?
You can mask the main varietal component. Saw this once where a little too much Malvasia was used with Syrah. it was interesting, but it was more gardenia than syrah.
One can easily over do it with the Viognier, or any other grape, that might overpower the aromas/flavors/textures of the other varietal(s), much the same way too much stem inclusion from certain vineyards can dominate the wine.
We also co-ferm a little Syrah(%10 or so) in with Zinfandel on some lots, but we have to make sure the Syrah is going to compliment the Zin, which for us is choosing fruit from blocks/vineyards that produce more red fruit and some nice pepper.