eBob's My Wines vaporware....

WINE TALK
21

Beautifully worded, sir. [good.gif]

22

My wines has a chance as bob has street cred. But, if they don’t embrace making what Bob publishes easier to use then it will fail.

They have an opportunity to potentially block out people like Eric and his CT product by integrating the WA publications.

23

I think some people are forgetting that the primary purpose of this category of software is for wine collection organization. Based on the technological evidence I’ve seen so far, I have zero confidence that My Wines will deliver even half the quality that Cellar Tracker does, and THAT is most important to me. CT is a living, evolving product that I feel is user driven from the bottom up. Everything done “over there” is done top down and seems to move in slow motion and several steps behind the rest of the web. That’s fine for wine reviews, but not when it comes to productivity software.

When you have a competitor that is established as a clear market leader and fan favorite, the hill is very high and steep to climb. Even more telling is that CT requests donations and my wife admonishes me to make sure I’m paid up because it is so valuable!!

(It’s moronic that eBob hasn’t just relinquished the software to the experts and cut a deal with CT. He and his crew should focus on what they do best - review wine.)

24

Totally disagree. If you are a current WA subscriber, then click on “add professional review” and then cut and paste the eBob text into the window and that’s it, you’ve just integrated it yourself.

What can eBob add that would possibly make a difference unless signing up gets you a free tasting in your house with Robert Parker. For that I might consider it… no - on second thought I have been to Chez Levine and that was probably a lot more fun.

25

A forever subscription, or a one year subscription?

26

Interesting question. My assumption is that you would have to re-up every year to keep using it.

A related question is whether it will have an export feature where you can export all your wines to a spreadsheet. Moreover, will you be able to export Wine Advocate notes and scores for your wines or for other wines? Note that this would allow you to export to a spreadsheet, then import to CT.

The print and online versions of the WA are already very different in this way. I subscribed to the paper version for years. I still have those notes, even though I stopped subscribing to the paper version a few years ago. OTOH when someone subscribes to the online version, they get all the 15 or so past years of notes that are in there, but unless they take the time to copy them all, they lose all that if they don’t re-up. This would not be so if you could export the notes easily.

27

I think chris is looking for automated integration. Copy and pasting text for 1000s of wines would be a tedious task… time i could better spend sorting my iTunes library.

28

The automated integration is what you get at CT with IWC. That’s what eBob needs to do. Then everyone is happy and they wouldn’t have wasted countless $$ trying to reinvent the wheel.

29

Exactly what Eric tried to work out with TWA, but was rebuffed because they thought they could do it better and maintain full control … So, how’s that working out for them??? For Eric and CT???

Someone made a huge misjudgment, but pride is probably standing in the way of rectifying the mistake. Everyday that goes by, CT just gets more dominant and challenging it gets more difficult. Not the brightest business or IT folks running the shop over there. Advice to them: Stick to what you do best - wines.

30

Ok, I’ll tackle these arguments (or develop some of mine) one by one:

  • Coke and Pepsi don’t play together. Pepsi plays along. In the same way that Apple plays along Microsoft. To play together the balance of power would have to be much more… balanced. And I didn’t suggest that CT was the “end all be all”, I said “Anything new and hyped has to do at least what CT does and more.”
  • There are already (as I pointed out) tons of similar applications out there. They are all pretty much the same, the only one (that I know of, at least) being significantly different is CT. A new product would either be a) same as old ones, b) same as CT or c) completely new. From what I’ve seen MyWines is not aiming for c) and maybe not even for b). Any product aiming for a) is dead from the get-go. Now what is left for MyWines, short of bringing us something new and unexpected? 2 things: Parker’s name as a marketing tool and integration of Parker’s notes. Read again what I had to say about the latter one. Either they produce a closed system and are ultimately doomed to fail. Or they produce an open system and will be in a fix re: the distribution of Parker’s information (that Parker makes money of).
  • My guess at the whole situation: Parker got talked into a deal with the guys behind MyWines a long time ago, probably one of his friends being involved. It made sense at the time. Due to a combination of events (incompetence? mismanagement? real life getting in the way? realization that what they planned was already obsolete?) the release was postponed time and again. The time window to attract and to “enslave” (the better word doesn’t come to my mind right now) this market segment (by entering the market early on and leveraging on Parker’s name) is closing (or in my opinion has already passed). We already know one of Parker’s weaknesses is that he doesn’t know how and when to cut his losses. Hence the current fiasco with MyWines.
  • regarding my comment about Parker slipping into irrelevance, I’m afraid that’s true. Numerous other critics are assailing him with highly-regarded specialized publications. His own team is either dubious in nature (several of them not being more “professional critics” than many “amateurs” on the internet - being one of Parker’s buddies doesn’t make one a “professional critic” overnight, among other things) or publishing in other publications. My assessment is that only Schildknecht is a real professional critic with any kind of credibility (but facing an upward battle against critics already better established). Parker himself is not reviewing as many regions as he used to. He’s been called out on several questionable reviews of the Rhone. His last bastion is Bordeaux and even there he is currently being challenged. His brand is slowly but surely being tarnished. He has no heir apparent. You can call it “wishful thinking”. Let’s see how the WA fares when Parker retires. He will be 62 in a few months, he won’t last past 2015 as a wine critic.
31

Ahh memory lane. I hate opacity. I live for transparency. I may regret this, but I have for years wanted to shine some light on what is an increasingly revealing interaction.

Speaking of being rebuffed, it made me pull out one of my favorite rejection letters ever. (Well, my very favorite rejections came twice from Microsoft in college. Once I was at Microsoft, it was fun hanging those on my door for all employees and candidates to see that persistence pays off. And then there was my wife who broke up with me and broke my heart when we first started dating. That is a great story.) I digress. Back to the eRP folks.

Suffice it to say that in late-2005/early-2006 I tried VERY hard to come up with a deal with them. In fact between two cross country trips and lawyer’s fees as I tried to hammer a proposal it set me back about $15,000.00 and lots of hours of lost sleep. And after that, without a phone call here is what I got back: (Start at the bottom and revel in the delicious <> characters. I think this was a Word Mail Merge. I am so glad that I helped to design aspects of that back in my days at MSFT so they could use it to dump me!) A month later at least I did receive a more thoughtful explanation.

Now list, I can fully appreciate that eRP and CT are really trying do different things. Bob is the big dog, and any deal will ultimately be on his terms with him as the dominant partner. 30 years of dedication to the industry earn him infinite respect in my eyes, the presumably arrogant upstart. The funny thing is that I regularly touch base and offer to brainstorm on even the simplest things we could together. Even if/when we are competing, there is no reason to use that as an excuse to not offer a better experience to the many shared customers. It is unrealistic for either side to assume that 100% of customers will want to use a specific solution, so why not just do some simple things to help a big chunk of your customers? I even offered them a sweetheart that I doubt I will ever offer to anyone else. For the privilege of showing thousands of their customers data which they already pay to see, I would deliver them 50% more revenue per customer (it would be passed on to the customer, sorry) AND additionally eRP could use all of the CT notes to show to ALL of their annual subscribers on the eRP site. Not interested. Frankly, all I have ever tried to do is reopen brainstorming discussions about anything we could do to help each other. FWIW, the big sticking point always seemed to be the fact that I was working with Steve Tanzer.

Anyway, revel in the fun below:

_-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph James
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 10:27 AM
To: Eric LeVine; mbraunstein
Cc: ‘Joe James’; Doug
Subject: RE: Followup

Eric: Mark was going to get back to you with more detail but he is out of the country. Let me try and explain.

We want a cellar manager as one of the features of our website not a business. The more we interacted, the more we understood that you saw it as a business with great potential not just a hobby. We need simplicity our business. We need control and integration of all features with the rest of eRP. We felt that your goals are larger and require you to have control. You see CT as a complete business not just a feature on eRP. We would be getting in your way as you build your business and we limit your options.

We are not entertaining any other software provider.
If we do anything in the future, it would be something built by eRP.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.



— Eric LeVine <eric@cellartracker.com> wrote:
\

Guys, I will try once more.

Can you tell me anything more about why CellarTracker is “no longer a
match”? I invested a lot of time, money and energy into trying to make
something work with you guys, so I would appreciate any more concrete
feedback you can provide. Genuine appreciation is fine, but I would
love to learn a little bit about why there was such a sudden about
face.

Thanks,

-Eric LeVine

From: Eric LeVine
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 3:08 PM
To: ‘mbraunstein’
Cc: ‘Joe James’; Doug
Subject: RE: Followup

Mark,

I understand.

I am curious, can you tell me, are you pursuing other alternatives in
the cellar management space, or are you staying on the sidelines due
to the complexity and niche nature? It would help me to understand a
little more about the reasoning behind your decision.

Thanks,
-Eric LeVine

From: MBraunstein
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 2:20 PM
To: Eric LeVine
Cc: Joe; Doug
Subject: Followup

<>Dear Eric,

As you know, we discussed our strategy with respect to online cellar
</><>management at our quarterly eRobertParker.com board meeting
earlier this week.</> After much consideration we have concluded that
CellarTracker isn’t really a match for what we want to provide to our
subscribers.<>

We genuinely appreciate the time and effort you put into talking
with</> us and, of course, wish you the best with your venture in the
future.

Mark
_

32

Wow! That’s fascinating. I have to say, it does not look like some grand play to corner the market. Putting this together with the delays in delivering My Wines makes me think it’s just a low priority for them. That’s weird, esp. considering the time and effort that was originally put into RPWACM and the obvious need that almost all subscribers to erp have for some kind of useful wine cellar SW.

As an aside, I am currently updating my copy of RPWACM with the reviews from WA #182. It takes several hours each time because they stopped fixing bugs years ago. Each time I bring in new reviews, I have to go thru a list of wines telling the SW what matches and what doesn’t. This months list contains “13,161 records”. Most of this is mindless clicking while I tell the SW “No, this auslese is not that spatlese” or “No, this cabernet is not that chardonnay.” It takes a couple of hours every 2 months. This will be my last time!

33

Thanks for posting your exchanges, Eric Levine !

34

Ego’s get in the way of common sense. [dash1.gif]

Yes - once upon a time RMP was the be all end all in the world of wine. Times change and we are now in a digital, social networking world. How many wineries existed when Robert Parker started his business? How many now? What % of all those that exist does he review? What % of all those that exist have been publicly commented on my consumers on CT?

I used to base many purchase decisions on what professional critics would say. Everything from cars to wine to movie reviews. As the world of social networking as grown, you are exposed to thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people making the exact same choices you are making and providing feedback on what they see, purchase, touch and use. CellarTracker has captured the essence of this perfectly and continues to grow along with the ever changing atmosphere. Get on the train or be left at the station.

35

This whole thing is amazing. I always wondered why Parker had not just gobbled up Eric’s CT. It would have made SO much sense, and would have been huge for the site.

I could always “see” the tension with squires on the board with CT. You could just tell there was something not right. Eric always handled it very well. And with Parker failing so miserably with his first cellar software, you would think that he would see how great it would have been to partner up with CT.

I really do believe that the parker brand name is shrinking, or at least slowed way down in its growth. I think that he is fooling himself and making VERY bad decisions with respect to his site. Of course, partnering up with squires, SEEMED like a great idea when he first did it, but in the end, it is going to come back and bite him. Time will tell.

I’m no big time user of CT, because I am just SO bad at organizing things. But it is very clear that it is a GREAT product.

36

Time is money. Eric presented an interesting business idea to erobertparker.com 4 years ago. They rejected him three years ago and now they have shit.

And Joe James rejected him. The same Joe James that Robert Parker played off as a nobody while the stupid thread about wine bloggers was planted on the parker board that completely blew up in Parker’s face.

Freakin geniuses.

I feel good about where my subscription dollars for 10 years have gone.

37

JOE JAMESSSS THE CONSPIRACY WIDENS

38

Thanks for posting this Eric. The integration of the IWC was the reason I paid for a subscription. I still will occasionally copy and paste the WS and WA notes but it is too time consuming. I’ll do it for wines without a lot user reviews just to provide some perspective.

On a tangent (and a hopeful request), I know Allen Meadows is protective of his reviews. I thoroughly enjoy the Burghound and would love it if Allen’s reviews were integrated!

39

I suspect that the choice of Microsoft Silverlight technology was to ensure that people can’t do things like copy and paste Bob’s notes.

40

I doubt that will stop anyone. Most people are only interested in the scores anyway. At least from the CT point of view. We know where to read the notes, we just want the scores to be integrated so they will print on our pretty barcode labels. :smiley: