That’s hilarious . . . all the people on the site who claim that they no longer read or need reviews also want CT integration so that they stick scores on their barcodes! HA!
yeah… that’s just for the guests who come by for dinner… ![[foilhat.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/4156862bd5dc986048e5ebd4ef8fb6b10c738e94.gif "foilhat"){kind=small}
That second paragraph is a perfect explanation of why they should want to integrate with another company. Only if they wanted My Wines to be a business would it warrant not partnering with someone else, if it is just a feature of the website, then it doesn’t matter if they aren’t the ones providing it. Between this e-mail and the crazy post about blogs on the Parker board, I don’t have much hope for eRP’s ability to navigate in the increasingly digital world.
Your observation is fair, but it assumes a static world. Six months after this was written they announced MyWines as imminent. Now close to 3 years later it is not clear that their ambitions haven’t grown considerably. I think the proof will be in the pudding though. I am very curious to see the software, eventually. As I have said before, it will be professional and well done. I wonder how quickly they will iterate though once it is in the market? That’s really what the game is about–rapidly and nimbly responding to customer and market feedback and fleshing out the software in areas that attract interest or warrant more depth.
BTW, here is an as-yet unanswered (it likely never will be) email I sent directly to Bob (or his admin):
From: Eric LeVine
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:28 PM
To: Bob’s Admin
Subject: Regrets and opportunities?
Bob,
Apologies for emailing you. I tripped across this email address at one point and have been meaning to send you a note for some time, only when and if the time was right. Our brief interaction on this thread made me think that perhaps now is an opportune time.
First, let me say that my sentiments expressed in the thread are sincere and my motivation very simple. Despite trying a number of times to work with Mark Braunstein and Joe James (multiple conversations in 12/2004 and later 10/2005-1/1006), we never seem to have found a common ground that makes sense. I know and respect that when it comes to technology these are “Your Guys” that you look to help you steer the ship. At the same time, as you guys have dug in with MyWines for 3+ years now it seems like the market continues to progress. Nevertheless, a week never passes where multiple customers don’t ask the simple question of me, “why can’t you work with Parker to ‘integrate’ things.” It always pains me. The technology is not the issue. From the perspective of wine lovers on the Internet, there are many compelling things we could each do that requires trivial technical changes. The challenge of course is in finding the compelling business synergy between our efforts. And of course I understand that when you guys have considered this in the past the answer has landed on NO at least a couple of times. However those pesky customers, tens of thousands of them, just keep asking that simple question. I really like doing things with technology to delight customers. Apart from raising a family that is all I have done for nearly 20 years now.
I could bore you with metrics to try and convince you of the adoption and importance of my site. All would of course pale in comparison to the lifetime of work you have devoted to the industry by chasing your passion with your unique gifts and hard work. I will toss out one simple statistic: CellarTracker will reach 1,000,000 tasting notes in a few months from 10’s of thousands of users. These are not bloggers, just a whole lot of wine lovers expressing their likes and dislikes. I (perhaps naively) wish there was a way to harness each of our respective strengths to common good and customer delight.
BTW, one other regret is that I have not always behaved with the greatest maturity on your board, especially in my interactions with Mr. Squires. I have tried to rectify that, mostly by participating less. Above all else I do feel as if I owe you an apology for my brash behavior at times.
Sincerely,
-Eric LeVine
(206) xxx-xxxx
Eric, regarding that 1,000,000 tasting note number - have we passed that yet? If not then it’ll be interesting to see who writes the 1,000,000th tasting note on CT. ![[blush2.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/c/c69482ca0320379147926d74fed26a9debedfa0a.gif "blush"){kind=small}
Currently at 892,348 and likely to hit 1,000,000 in a few more months. People are generating close to 1,100 reviews/day right now, but things always have a little seasonal slowdown in July and August. I was thinking of a contest where maybe the first 10 to post tasting notes (with text, not just a score) get a free 6 months on CellarTracker and get called out. Wuddya think? Want to help me brainstorm a good contest that will help to get people generating great content?
Go here now for CT brainstorming:
CellarTracker ideas - brainstorm cool stuff for Eric here - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Considering how you’ve been treated publicly, this shows that you’re either a much better person than I am or simply not nearly as vindictive as I am. It’s probably the former, because I would never consider apologizing to Parker for some of the vitriol I’ve unleashed on Squires. He’s deserved every word.
Bob, trust me, I am human. I have flaws. I can be a real ass. There are times when I should have just closed my laptop and walked away and instead chose to engage in pissing contests with Mark Squires. Period. It’s their playground. They view me as a competitor.
The thing I keep coming back to is that we share a lot of customers who demand that we rise above pettiness in order to deliver them value.
This so very difficult for me to grasp. I don’t see any of the various wine BBs, blogs, sites, etc as competitors. We all have a severe love of food and wine…and some of us juvenile humour and pranks ![[gen_fro.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/acc371fe8341f433d5c0ed34025c962acc33ad59.gif "fro"){kind=small}
…that should not be viewed as a competetion.
Eric - thanks for sharing that dialog with the eRP crew!
I find all of this incredibly fascinating, because I think we are at point in time where there is a clear shift in terms of the role that the professional critic plays versus the voice of the consumer. All you have to do is Google terms like “user generated content”, “UGC”, and “word of mouth marketing” and you will find a sea of data that speaks to the rapidly growing wave of consumer TRUST shifting from professional content to consumer-generated content. It’s happening in so many other markets that I find it hard to believe that it won’t happen with wine.
As much as I would like to bang on the eRP crew for being out-of-touch, I think they are right to view CT as a competitor to a certain degree. Despite all of the ancillary content that eRP/WA produces, their most valuable asset is wine reviews and ratings. You have a database of wine reviews and ratings that is growing at a staggering rate (and will probably only increase), AND you have a consumer shift in terms of who’s content they find more compelling and trustworthy.
Maybe I’m not the model wine consumer, but I for one have let my WA and WS subscriptions lapse. I can’t remember the last time I referenced a professional review, but I can tell you that I probably search the CT database at least 5 times a week.
By partnering with and/or acquiring CT, ERP had an opportunity to harness and be part of that. That CT has become a competitor is largely through their own (in)action.
Great post. eRP’s attitude was best summed up by Mark Squires himself-- “why don’t we just give you (CT) ALL of our intellectual property?” I paraphrase because the thread is gone as far as I can tell. It’s a done deal and I doubt that eRP will swallow their pride and come running to Eric. I actually could care less about integration, because I found zero advantage to subscribing anyway. ALL the e-tailers will e-mail you offers with scores on wines that you can buy. There is no window anymore to buy little gems before the market reacts. So, I can search on almost any wine and a retailer will have the Parker notes.
As far as buying wines that I have not tasted, two conditions must be met: a good RP/ST/WS score, and good reviews on CT if they exist. This has been especially useful with QPR wines-- those RP 90 pointers that can be a real crapshoot.
You know, I like this board quite a lot, I like CT quite a lot (and use it and try to keep current on donations), and I enjoyed Eric quite a lot the one time I met him. But isn’t it brash to post private emails whether for leverage or punishment or venting? And when those private emails were part of a business negotiation, isn’t it even a bit more than brash?
The problem with these bashing threads is that they can be rather addictive and conducive to escalation and, thus, a hardening of the battle lines. If the main goal is to develop some sort of integration of CT and WA, this will hardly help to achieve it.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have said anything, and I suppose mine is likely a minority opinion (at least among those willing to comment), but I really do find this disturbing. I also think it’s counterproductive, except as a vehicle for catharsis. Here’s hoping that cooler heads prevail.
-Al
Al, I totally understand where you are coming from.
At the same time, there are two approaches. Transparency and Secrecy. I have been trying for 5 years to accomplish a simple scenario. I have been very up-front about that with customers, bystanders, Bob, and his technology advisers. I have been jerked off and jerked around. Dozens of customers, of their own volition, have sent email to eRP and bcc’ed me. I have sat tight and played the party line. I am not exactly sure whose party, but this is not how I like to play. When customers ask I like to answer whether the answer be YES, NO, or I DON’T KNOW. But at least offer an answer in a timely way to the best of one’s knowledge.
At the end of the day, I would prefer to be open and transparent. Period. We are not talking rocket science here. Most of what you see here is a one-sided attempt to accomplish a simple scenario for a mutual set of customers. And in thread after thread after thread after email after email people keep asking for the same thing I have been asking for since early 2004. I am tired of pretending that this is some state secret. I have offered more olive branches than I know how to offer. I have shown humility and naivete. I am not bashing. As I have said many times, I am sure that MyWines will be clean and elegant. The silly thing is that this is not about MyWines versus CellarTracker. It is not about Bob versus Amateur Reviews. It is not about world dominance. It is just about gluing together a few databases for a lot of people who are happy to pay for that.
I continue to offer simple, constructive ways to achieve technology and business synergy. But I am talking to the void. There is no one on the other end to answer the phone, email or whatever. I don’t even think they understand the language I am speaking in if they are even listening.
Sure, it’s clear you and WA have different approaches. Even more, you’re really from different cultures. Cross cultural negotiations tend to be more successful if you try to understand the other side’s approach, needs, and goals and tend to be less successful if you become frustrated that they don’t embrace your needs, goals, or follow your approach. I think that negotiating through posts on public boards doesn’t go over very well in their culture. I’m also probably dating myself, but posting private messages used to be considered very ill manners. It would be great if you and RP developed a business relationship. But they do get to chose whether they want it.
As a side and off-topic comment, it turns out I’m in the opacity business (has a somewhat different meaning in plasma physics).
-Al
Al, this suffice it to say, my posts here are not a negotiating tactic. There is no negotiation. They talked to me 3.5 years ago. They have made it very clear they are not interested in talking again.
For me, this thread is about being upfront. Period. I have nothing to hide here. I am giving away no trade secrets.
I, too, appreciate where Al is coming from, and Al–I very much like and appreciate your tone of cordiality. But I see it a bit differently than you do (disclaimer–I’m a friend of Eric’s). It doesn’t seem to me that Eric was attempting to negotiate with them via open or published emails. That was 4 years ago, and it was all done between the parties at the time–it was not done via the internet. There are no negotiations going on now. Bob did not even show him the courtesy of a reply to his last email.
Seems to me Eric has been very respectful to the eRP folks. Bottom line–if you don’t want to see your letters (or emails) published in the newspaper or online, don’t put something in writing–do it verbally. If there’s no request for confidentiality, then if its in writing, it may show up somewhere. Of all people, Bob–a public figure of sorts–should expect that his correspondence could show up in public places.
A couple of years ago I was visiting Domaine Leroy in Burgundy. There, in the office, was a letter from Bob to the Domaine. They framed it and hung it on the wall.
Doesn’t seem intemperate to me that Eric shared the correspondence. But I wouldn’t leap to the conclusion that Eric is now trying to negotiate. I think he’s trying to vent, albeit in a respectful tone.
i agree with WVG,
if there is no disclaimer in the email/correspondence stating that it is confidential and not for public distribution then it’s fair game. Our company just learned this lesson painfully a few years go.