If someone has a moral objection to meat then they should not feel obliged to buy or cook it for guests. They should feel obliged to notify their guests that the meal will be vegetarian or vegan in case said guests want to have a bite to eat before arriving. I’ve had some very good vegan dishes but honestly I have no idea of how to cook them. It sounds like these people don’t either. The idea that if you can cook meat (which I can) then you can cook good vegan food is nonsense. I can do some decent vegetarian food (not as good as meat based) but once you take dairy away from me I’m at a loss for many things.
On the other hand I have bad meals every year because I love and like the people I’m having them with. We often have holiday meals at my aunt’s independent living facility which serves incredibly bland/tasteless food. But after the first year I knew to have a bite to eat before leaving. I’d never consider skipping these meals even if the food was 10x worse than it is.
I eat meat, but I’m not confused by a moral objection to it. As a preliminary point, I’ll acknowledge killing things to eat them is considered the norm in our society, and really is the natural order of being human, so perhaps some actually cannot understand the moral concern. However, I essentially see the act of eating meat as one that is potentially immoral, yet I engage in that act because it is pleasurable. I mean, not only does one have to kill a sentient being to eat it, but the ecological repercussions are detrimental as well.
As for why vegetarians aren’t expected to provide meat, I see it as probably three things. First, I don’t want them to engage in behavior that they find morally objectionable to feed me. Second, as stated above, I can eat other things and enjoy them. Third, do you really want a vegetarian cooking meat for you? I can’t imagine that they’d be particularly good at it. I enjoy cooking for vegetarians, and even for gluten-free vegans because it pushes me outside my comfort zone and makes me a better cook. Would it get old if it was an all the time thing? Absolutely, but on occasion it is fine. Because I am cooking for Christmas my vegan entrée will be a pre-prepared Field Roast rather than something I make from scratch. That is only because the vegetarian/vegan contingent is the extreme minority. If I was hosting a smaller gathering with less intensive meat preparation I would attempt the cranberry topped vegetarian (with vegan option) nut roast I saw on Jamie Oliver’s website.
It really depends on why the person is vegetarian/vegan. Ethical vegetarians as already noted generally, but not always, won’t because it’s against their beliefs. It’s the equivalent of asking them to do something against their religion. Those that are vegetarian for other reasons often don’t have any issue with doing so. My wife and I were ovo-lacto for a decade and cooked meat for guest a number of times.
It is not a double standard, it is merely asymmetry. Your vegan friends will not eat meat. You, presumably, will eat non-meat foods. What ends up on the table is what you can have in common, which should be the basis of sharing meals. I don’t serve my Jewish friends, or my Muslim friends (which I don’t actually have), pork, and it certainly doesn’t bother me if they don’t serve it to me.
I do think that it would be fair to be warned in advance of extreme dietary limitations from the hosting side, just as it is expected from the guests.
Absolutely not. I didn’t break this down to particular proteins. Today was he first time I have heard someone other than PITA say they were morally against eating meat. I don’t force my cooking choices on anyone at my home. Vegetarians do or else you go hungry. That’s what brought up my question.
I like hearing all the opinions. It helps me form a better understanding. Can’t get answers unless you ask for them, right?
If it helps, we used to cook a turkey and leave it in the trunk of the car when we ate at my sister-in-law’s for thanksgiving. Everybody would sneak out and have some turkey before, during and after the meal. She caught on. For the last two years the SIL has brined a turkey and it’s really tasty.
No, I’m saying if I don’t eat their veggie concoction I go hungry. Try to quote my entire post and it might make sense. Cherry pick out one sentence and you can confuse yourself very easily. Obviously.
Really? I would guess many if not most vegetarians and/or vegans make that choice for what they see as moral reasons, since a strict vegan diet, at least, isn’t healthier than one that includes some animal products. I’m very surprised you’ve only heard this argument made by extremists. But anyway…
I think in general polite society gives the nod to those with “problems” (I don’t mean that exactly, I just like the alliteration) rather than those with preferences. I am not saying this tendency is right or wrong, it just does seem to be the case. We make changes to dishes, menus, and behaviors to accommodate religions, allergies and various restrictions, dietary and otherwise for various reasons, including kindness and wanting those people to be able to participate. Those with an aversion generally do get catered to more than those with a predilection. I will always accommodate my dear friends who only eat fish, or those who don’t eat pork, when I prepare a menu, but I never make dessert just because I know someone has a sweet tooth.
I agree with most here that it’s good to warn and have warning of any restrictions and what the menu might be. That way, one can always say no. I also happen to believe it’s possible to cook delicious food under almost any set of guidelines, even gluten free vegan, though that would be more challenging. Sounds like the problem is that your vegetarian friends is not that they are vegetarians, it’s that they can’t cook!
I don’t think this is an issue with them not warning you. It’s that they are poor cooks. I expect that many people could make vegan and gluten-free meals that are great and there would be no big problem. Granted there is some chance that they cooked good food and you didn’t like it, but if the other guests agreed with you I don’t think that’s the problem.
There is no double standard in the original scenario. Everyone is entitled to decide what they won’t eat and what they won’t cook, and they should do their best to entertain their guests within those parameters, including finding out what their guests won’t eat. Nobody should be expected to cook or eat something that’s offensive to them. If you’re actually offended by a meal without meat, or you’ve found out your friends are just lousy cooks, then you just need to opt out - or convince them to go out to dinner with you.
Don’t talk like an idiot, Dr. Weinberg. If I made you a dinner of arugula salad with heirloom tomatoes and pickled onions, followed by braised endive with toasted hazelnuts, roasted herbed potatoes, spinach sauteed with garlic and red pepper flakes, toast points topped with sauteed morels, shallots and herbs, wood fired pizza with truffled corn and seared scallions, homemade pasta with tomatoes, olives and basil, and risotto topped with white truffles, you’d survive just fine, thank you very much. And the wine pairing options would be strong. Would it be better with egg, cream, cheese and duck fat? Yes, it would. Would it be delicious without? Abso-f*cking-lutely.
I’ll say again: there is no reason or excuse for food that doesn’t taste good, or food that can’t satisfy, no matter what the restrictions.
If I made you a dinner of arugula salad with heirloom tomatoes and pickled onions, followed by braised endive with toasted hazelnuts, roasted herbed potatoes, spinach sauteed with garlic and red pepper flakes, toast points topped with sauteed morels, shallots and herbs, wood fired pizza with truffled corn and seared scallions, homemade pasta with tomatoes, olives and basil, and risotto topped with white truffles, you’d survive just fine, thank you very much. And the wine pairing options would be strong. Would it be better with egg, cream, cheese and duck fat? Yes, it would. Would it be delicious without? Abso-f*cking-lutely.