it’s a sports related term for stadiums charging a licensing fee for the right to buy season tickets (personal seat license).
been around a while, but i think the first i heard of it was when met life stadium was being constructed for the giants and jets.
I’ve gotta be honest. I am REALLY surprised that so many people seem to be either ok, or fully on board with this model. I truly hope that this does not become a ‘trend’, as I would be super disappointed if some of my favorite producers started adding a ‘pay to play’ tier on top of the normal mailing list…especially if I’ve been consistently purchasing from them for a long period of time. To David’s point earlier, I feel like this model somewhat minimizes the value placed on past consumer loyalty by giving those buyers an ultimatum to either pay a fee or be placed in the back of the line…no matter how long they’ve been supporting the business.
I consider myself a ‘casual’ D&R fan, but for those of you who have been buying/supporting the winery from the start, does it not feel a little frustrating to be told that you need to pay an addiitonal $225 in order to continue having the first shot at purchasing the new wines? Would love to hear others thoughts on that.
.
I’m pretty sure Al Davis used it when the Raiders returned to Oakland from LA in 1995.
I’m with you on this. I really loved D&R wines and supported them. However I am not going to pay to purchase and find the concept insulting. I think the plan is for a different wine experience than D&R and i don’t think i will be following. No ill will but another high end Pinot bottling is not for me.
And we see how well that went.
I need to leave this thread before someone tries to confiscate my man card.
Yes, and the poorly structured plan failed miserably which effectively shifted the cost to the city/county (as I recall, they bought bonds and were to be repaid with revenue from the PSLs). First failure of a PSL plan to finance an NFL stadium.
-Al
A couple of quick comments:
I wish nothing but the best for Kate and Hardy. They are both tremendous individuals who have show their passion, compassion and uniqueness for a long time now and the support they’ve received is certainly deserving.
I can understand how some may feel ‘slighted’ that as past supporters of D and R that you are not automatically entitled to be a part of The Camp. I’m sure Kate and Hardy are aware of these concerns and it would not surprise me that they address them individually should they so choose, or collectively here.
I think The Camp concept is unique - no surprise there - and it may not appeal to those who simply want to support and purchase the wines. I’m sure that they will offer just wine offerings for those who want just that.
I did find it interesting that the ‘requested’ support for those in The Camp would be 36 bottles per year - to me, that separates many who ‘occasionally purchase a few bottles’ to those who basically purchase a case per release.
I am a bit confused about the expensive pinot comments - has he said somewhere that he plans on making a $100 wine?
As I said, I wish them nothing by tremendous success with their new venture and look forward to trying some of the wines down the line.
Cheers!
Larry,
If your point #2 is meant to refer to my comments then you are somewhat off base. I don’t expect to be entitled to the camp. I find the PSL nature of the camp irritating, but Hardy can do what he wants. I hope I get wine, but the whole camp concept is useless for me. Too many things I will never be able to take advantage of, so I go to the back of the line.
Actually the more I think about it, the less I want the wines.
I took the offer of the camp as just that, an offer. It didn’t change my feelings towards Hardy or his entity.
Everyone immediately STOP!! David Bueker is not happy. We need Hardy to change his business model right now. It’s not going to work any other way. David - we are going to fix this right now. Don’t worry.
David,
It was not aimed at you - it was meant for many folks out there who feel they perhaps are not being given ‘due respect’ for supporting D&R and that resonates with me.
That said, I don’t think this puts anyone in the back of the line per se, but that’s really for Hardy to hopefully explain.
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers.
And…. This is why we love Bedrock and would be heart broken if they ever go this route.
The way I see it is: I paid something like $150-200 in shipping last year buying right around 3 cases. Basically if I buy the same amount of wine which I don’t expect I won’t, I’m really no worse off. Having early access is nice and I may advantage of the in person tasting.
If you didn’t buy that much of the wine, then it’s probably not a really good value.
That’s pretty much where my head went, ha! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Rich,
Yours is one way to look at it.
I would point out, however, that this is not a continuation of D&R but a wholly different project without partners or financial backers. Consider if Hardy had been winemaker at Mondavi and decided to go off on his own. Would you feel that because you bought Mondavi wines for years, this new model for his new project was equally disappointing?
I suggest that your stated position would be more in line with a scenario where Mondavi decided to institute this model after years of not doing it.
So I see no disrespect to former D&R buyers.
I too, think the model unusual. But I am willing to give Hardy and Kate the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how this works out. After 12 years of being the sole investor in my own wine label I can tell you that, as a business, a small wine label is rarely a great financial success. A good friend once told me that, once you put a wine in bottle, you are no longer a winemaker - you’re a wine salesman. That paradigm shift makes it very real.
For folks with two kids, no other financial backing than themselves and a production that will never reach the point of economy of scale, I do not begrudge them $225 to be, essentially, part of the family. Their success will be my success.
Or at least, that’s how I look at it.
Best, jim
Ehh…my model is different in a few ways:
Thanks for the shout out though.
Adam
I’m not sure about $100, but according to Ester Mobley’s SF Chronicle article Hardy and Kate are making a Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and the overall price point for the wines in the new venture will be slightly higher than D&R, about $40-$60 as compared to D&R’s $30-$50 range.
It’s worth noting this new venture is significantly smaller than D&R (less than 20% the size of D&R), and as Jim noted, one that Hardy and Kate have undertaken with no financial partners. So I imagine they are trying to come up with a viable model that makes sense for them.
The one bummer for me is the apparent diminished emphasis on single-vineyard wines. I always loved the single vineyard Mourvedres from D&R, especially from Evangelho. I’m sad to see that go. Hopefully there will still be a small amount of single vineyard wines in the future. Finger crossed. Either way, I’m excited to see this new project develop and grow.
I think part of the problem here is how it’s being positioned. If Hardy had done a straight-up kickstarter campaign saying, “hey we need upfront capital for our new project, help me & Kate get going… and get all these added benefits” – I would have very happily contributed because I’m a Hardy believer and want to support the little guy/girl in their projects.
However, the message came across to me as a bit of “you think we’re great, so give us $225 to reserve your seat for greatness or else run the risk of losing out… and here’s some other random things like keychains (?) that are totally valuable swag!” I’ve only been buying for 3 years, so I don’t expect special treatment, but I can sympathize with those who feel their early support of the project has gone completely unrecognized.
This feeling, combined with this info from the Esther Mobley article, led me to lose all interest in signing up:
The new wines will be lower in quantity — about 800 cases per year, to start — and slightly higher in price, spanning > $40-$60 > as opposed to Dirty & Rowdy’s general $30-$50 range. There will be > less of an emphasis on single-vineyard wines> , and more on blends from vineyards in disparate areas of California. Mourvedre will remain part of the lineup but > will not be the main focus> . Already, in the last few weeks, Wallace has harvested > Pinot Noir and Chardonnay> , wines he never made for Dirty & Rowdy.
Less Mourvedre → Less interest. I enjoy the variety of D&R wines, but the Mourvedres were the really special ones - Evangelho, Shake Ridge, and Enz are all world class wines that have few peers around the world. The red blends and red varietal bottlings, while tasty, seem to me more about the D&R style, which is great when in the mood for it, but short of next level. The whites, roses and orange wines are very good, but don’t stand out at their price points.
Higher Price → less interest. I’d still pay those prices for the single vineyard Mourvedres, but I have less interest in entry level wines for $40.
Pinot/Chardonnay → less interest. There’s so much good domestic pinot/chardonnay sub-$50.