Sonoma Coast (but “true” Sonoma Coast; it’s over 500,000 acres fer cryin’ out loud, and half of that is nowhere near the coast as far as I’m concerned), Santa Cruz Mountains, Anderson Valley. I’m not a big fan of SLH and SRH as they seem too tutti-fruity, though to be fair that may just be my somewhat limited exposure – perhaps I simply haven’t tried the “right” ones for my palate. Anyone have suggestions for SLH and SRH wines made in an elegant/restrained style? I’d love to try them. Russian River Valley is a mixed bag for me. Some very nicely made wines (I love what Ceritas is doing, and I’ve enjoyed Dehlinger for over 25 years or so), but many wines which are too big for me.
I think it’s now official, we’re not allowed to have SCM as a “favorite” appellation. We must change our personal opinions of what we like. C’mon, Stu, the question wasn’t which is the “best” appellation, simply what’s your favorite. How can you disagree with someone telling you SCM is their favorite appellation? Are they wrong about what they think is their favorite? (and why is the appellation required to have tons of superb producers to qualify as someone’s favorite?)
There could be some numerical issues since there was multiple votes cast but it goes a little something like this:
Santa Cruz mts and Sonoma Coast- 10 votes each.
Anderson valley- 9 votes
Santa Rita hills- 4 votes
Santa Lucia highlands- 3 votes
Russian River valley- 3 votes
1 vote each for wind gap and sebastopol hills, parts of sonoma coast.
In general it seems that the cooler climes are the order of the day, at least here in burgland. With Santa Cruz mts being the new darling for sure. 
I guess give em ten years and a hundred more wineries and we’ll have something to complain about there to.
I agree that scm is not as established as other ava’s with mt. eden, windy oaks and rhys setting the tone. But i feel that the newness is a big reason for all the votes, as we love to be in on the ground floor. Nothing wrong with feeling the best is yet to come, while other ava’s chase there storied past. Thanks everyone for the opinions. Suggestions welcome for santa rita and santa lucia as i am relatively unexperienced. Cheers
Examples of “superior Pinot” would be??
I think Corey just summed it up. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I had no idea SCM was not established. You might want to run a google check Corey.
He summed up the thread very well, but I’m very interested in your examples of “superior Pinot”. You stated that SCM couldn’t be anyone’s favorite unless they gave you 7-8 consistent producers. I gave them to you. Then, Wes gave you a much more complete list and you responded that these don’t stack up to superior Pinot Noir. I’d be fascinated to hear about how Mount Eden’s wines don’t stack up to any wine in California, but for now I’d really like to know who, in your view is making “superior” wine since people are, you know picking the wrong favorites.
The comparisons are like a Munsters vs Addams Family debate, each to their own liking.
Anthony, I think the thread title was supposed to read " What are Stu Fishlers’ favorite California Pinot Appellations" I think Stu is just trying to stir the pot a little as he seems to feel the area is under achieving… to each there own I guess.
I think I’m just crabby…
joe hauck wrote:
I had no idea SCM was not established. You might want to run a google check Corey.
Firstly, I don’t think I need to use google, as every producer in the Santa Cruz mts. has been listed in this thread. Secondly, I believe I said, “Not as established as other ava’s”. To dispute the level of critical acclaim, pinnacle wines, and consumer awareness of the scm vs other pinot producing ava’s at this time, a few producers not withstanding, would be silly. I believe i went on to extol the potential of the region, and all our hopes about it. So thank you for your snide comment, despite how small and disappointing, and I defend to the death your right to make it. 
Whoa Corey. I wasn’t trying to be snide at all. You commented on SCM not being as established as other AVA’s but I believe it has been around since 1981 with Mount Eden created in what I think was 1972… but before that being Martin Ray who planted Pinot in 1945. This is not a new area for great Pinot and that was all I was trying to convey. You should try and source some old Mount Eden estate Pinot and see why people feel strongly about the AVA.
I was just going to say something along these lines. There’s nothing johnny-come-lately about Mt. Eden. If you want to drink a California pinot with serious bottle age, you have a choice between Mt. Eden and, what, like 4 other wineries?
I wasn’t really referring to the establishment date or historical validity of the scm ava. Also Mt. Eden, along with Ridge, are unquestionably benchmark producers. I was merely saying that its taken a long time for others in the area to push that quality envelope, that is the newness, a renaissance really. Actually the oldest of these ava’s, established 2 years before the russian river. But, with under 1500 acres under vine ( roughly 25% pinot), its the smallest pinot producing ava. Santa rita hills is the newest ava and already has quite a bit more pinot under vine. Great discussion.
I’m not sure it’s the case actually that SCM is the coolest climate. Anderson Valley actually gets quite warm during the summer too. I don’t know how it compares to RRV in terms of total degree days. I’m pretty sure Santa Lucia Highlands is on average cooler than either.
For me personally with SCM it’s not a ground floor thing. I’ve cut down my pinot buying to just 6 producers (Anthill, Rhys, Kutch, Rivers Marie, Ceritas, WIndy Oaks). So SCM fruit is the basis for 2 of them, RRV and Central Coast the basis for none of them. Actually from that list I should be saying my favorite appellation is Sonoma Coast.
I think the long list of SCM producers is a little misleading. Historically I think there has been a lot of mediocre wine made out of Santa Cruz (e.g. Santa Cruz Mountain Vineyards or CInnabar or Stefania). But when you see what is possible when someone chooses a good site, applies modern viticulture and winemaking techniques, the results get you really excited.
Again, i didn’y say scm was the coolest climate, i said it was cool, the lowest height allowed is 400ft ocean side, and 800 ft, on the s. east boundary.
The ocean fog, and cooling effect seems to be a factor here, as well as the true sonoma coast and the deep end of anderson valley. Santa rita hills and santa lucia highlands also are cooled in the same way. If you are exited about the possibilities of the area, and for more quality sites to come on line, you are chilling on the ground floor. Also, since we are picking the nit in this thread, anthill makes russian river stuff ( tina marie). Thanks.
Keep in mind that although Tina Marie Vineyard is in the Russian River Valley AVA, it is more specifically in the Green Valley sub-appellation, which is probably the coolest, and certainly the foggiest, part of the Russian River Valley AVA.
What I like about the SCM is site expression, cool climate and being off the beaten path enough that they wouldn’t benefit following trends. Most of what I taste from outside the region (and I’m talking the highly regarded big names) are over-ripe and underwhelming to me. Then, many of the ones that are cool climate and not f’ed up by the winemaker lack a site expression that does anything for me. There certainly are great examples from all over the state, but the batting average, for my tastes, is poor.
Btw, some of the best producers don’t pour at Pinot Paradise. And my list was off the top of my head, not intended to be complete.
Like Brian L., it’s more about producer for me than it is appellation.
That said, I’ll play along; as determined by my cellar holdings, my vote clearly goes to Santa Lucia Highlands.
Full disclosure: that is on the strength of 3 bottlings all from the same producer, sooooo … ummm, yeah – producer more important to me.
Older SCMVs compare well to Caleras. Other notable historic producers include David Bruce, Bonny Doon (winery named after and inspired by the McHenry’s Pinot Noir vineyard, btw), Congress Springs, Cronin, Paul Masson (perhaps California’s first Pinot Noir?). A big part of the boom here is the number of new wineries - and most of those are pretty good. You must be confused listing Stefania as historic or mediocre. You’ve had one of their Pinots?