God, I wish critics would stick to wines and not burden us with their musical preferences.

WINE TALK
21

From the classic Stuff White People Like blog:

"Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.”"

22

That’s the first nice thing I’ve ever read about Parker.

23

what’s most odd is that the article itself is titled “The Year of Jazz & Wine: 1959.” the reader should reasonably expect some tie between the two as opposed to the author undermining the title by turning into a non-sequitur about how he doesn’t like jazz and then never mentioning it again.

i don’t really care what writers write about and the “stay in your lane” idea is usually abhorrent, but … if you’re going to write about jazz and wine maybe… write about jazz and wine?

24

Chris, would you please email me?

25

The idea that one can love music and dismiss all jazz as if it is monolithic seems like enough of a flaw that I agree with Mark’s premise.

26

So true. Jazz is definitely overrated.

27

Mmm…he’s no William Kelley :wink:

28

sigh

I once made the mistake of questioning Mr. Martin’s ‘nuanced’ discussions of wine - or not the wine, but ‘stuff’ surrounding… I am a customer, but in his case, clearly incorrect… Oh well

I could give a c#$p about his perspective on Jazz or other music, really. Write about wine and I will decide whether to bank on his thoughts. To date he has not moved me. Sad, as I think our palates align a bit. Just not my ‘cup of tea’

I am unimpressed. Sad about his health issues, but he does not move $$ from my wallet as other reviewers do.

29

Stipulating that I do not have any warm and fuzzy feelings for Neil Martin, was that his premise?

Honestly, I kind of feel like he was generalizing himself rather than jazz(or golf or scotch).

30

Oh my, some folks really are pretty cranky these days! The quarantine must be getting to all of us. I think most publications in the Pop world do try to be entertaining, do they not? It’s not like Neal is issuing a stock report on the latest IPO. (Maybe for some readers). Reminds me of sports fans who complain about player celebrations, “I just came here to watch football” crowd. It’s entertainment, not an exercise in statistical analysis of wine. For that just read the tech sheets. It has everything you want to know about acidity, alcohol, etc…

31

If you view Neal as a wine critic, then I suppose your complaint makes sense, but he really is a wine/culture/music/food writer. I enjoy Neal’s writing quite a bit, and don’t mind that he writes about music, although when the music takes precedence over the wine in a wine article, I find it a little irritating.

I find that the fine points of wine appreciation/understanding and the fine points of music appreciation/understanding have a high degree of overlap. I’m not talking about people who “love” wine, and will drink and enjoy awful swill, or the folks who “love” music, and will crank up terrible, irritating junk. But there are clearly people who understand and appreciate wine at a higher level than most of the rest of the world, and there are clearly folks who have the true gift of music at a far higher level than the rest of the world. And I think these two sensual abilities often coincide (not to repeat repeat myself.)

I’m not certain yet where Neal lies, but I think it’s fair to factor his musical tastes into assessing his sensual abilities in terms of calibrating his palate. I must say that his comments about scotch and Jazz gave me pause on both fronts. At the moment I’m still calibrating his palate, and doing the same with his musical sensibilities. Musically, he seems to favor eclectic/quirky (although this could be just that it is deemed to be more attention getting for the audience). Wine-wise, does he favor Bordeaux over Burgundy, or is this just the nature of his assigned coverage?

32

Bose?!?!?!?

WTAF!

Two of those three things are just wrong. [head-bang.gif]

But, since Shiraz is the Bose of wine, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

_

By and by, the current jazz scene is overflowing with talent. Please tell the black players among them that the music they make is no longer for black people to enjoy. [swearing.gif]

[stirthepothal.gif]

33

Brings to mind the infamous quote, “no highs, no lows, must be Bose.” [whistle.gif]

34

I think the comment (which was just meant for laughs, not me trying to start an assault on jazz music) was about the audience, not the music or the musicians. Shiraz and Bose are also in there because that piece was written in 2008.

I know there is good jazz and there are people who genuinely love jazz, but you’d have to admit, there is a pretty widespread pose out there about jazz as well, people declaring their love for it as some kind of cultural and elite taste marker, but who probably don’t actually turn off the TV and listen to it when nobody else is around.

35

That is a truly impressive amount of bullshit in a very few sentences.

I like Neal’s writing about wine, and I like his writing about pop music. I’d rather not see him combine the two (“this is the Nine Inch Nails of Lagrein”) but I am sure that John will alert me if he does.

My personal view is that jazz is this country’s greatest artistic contribution to the world. It pains me that it is not more broadly recognized as such

36

I meant my reply only in jest. (100% goofing off, no ill intent.)

I am unaware of the widespread fake love of jazz. Although, I have met a few here and there. I ask them who they like and when they say, “Spyro Gyra, Return to Forever, Flim and the BBs, John Klemmer, Tuck & Patty, Mannheim Steamroller, Chuck Mangione, Manhattan Transfer, or that infernal Kenny G,” I stop them right then and there and offer them a big glass of Shiraz.
More apologies, one of those answers is a trap.

37

[rofl.gif]

This is the Sheen Easton of Shiraz.

This wine is the “MacArthur Park” of Merlot.

I love this idea…

This wine is the Joel Grey of Cabernet.

38
39

Track one, side two is a total Howard moment! champagne.gif

[wink.gif]

40

I’m an old white guy who likes jazz and wine - plus the Grateful Dead [cheers.gif]

I obviously didn’t take the same degree of umbrage that Mark did when I read Neal’s comments about jazz, but I did think WTF?

BTW, Anton, while I will concede that I don’t listen to jazz fusion all that much anymore, putting RTF in the same sentence with Kenny G is a pretty serious disservice to Chick Corea, not to mention Stanley Clarke, Lenny White & Al DiMeola.