GrapeRadio Interview of Alice Feiring

[Jay_Selman]

Any topics (other the Parker) you would like to hear her discuss?

[Roberto_Rogness]

Easy: Alice, since we will no doubt be discussing it in depth, can you define Natural Wine for our listeners?

[Jay_Selman]

@Roberto Rogness

Easy: Alice, since we will no doubt be discussing it in depth, can you define Natural Wine for our listeners?

I had intended to discuss Natural Wine. I am not sure I understand the definition. One could argue that since it is manipulated, there is no such thing.

[G_D_y_e_r]

Why is copper sulfate permitted in Biodynamic viticulture? It is natural in some sense, but it is literally an inorganic compound and can be damaging to an ecosystem.

Also, along these lines, one of the criticism of New World viticulture is that irrigation is often necessary in these arid climates. But a positive side effect is lowered disease pressure as the lack of humidity reduces the presence of mildew. While the climate undoubtedly leads to a stylistic difference that some people prefer more than others, can one make a pure value judgment on the use of water for irrigation in an arid climate versus dry farming in a humid continental or maritime climate where copper sulfate is necessary to prevent mold, mildew and fungus? Water to me seems a more natural additive for a plant than copper sulfate.

[Jay_Selman]

@G. D y e r

Why is copper sulfate permitted in Biodynamic viticulture? It is natural in some sense, but it is literally an inorganic compound and can be damaging to an ecosystem.

Also, along these lines, one of the criticism of New World viticulture is that irrigation is often necessary in these arid climates. But a positive side effect is lowered disease pressure as the lack of humidity reduces the presence of mildew. While the climate undoubtedly leads to a stylistic difference that some people prefer more than others, can one make a pure value judgment on the use of water for irrigation in an arid climate versus dry farming in a humid continental or maritime climate where copper sulfate is necessary to prevent mold, mildew and fungus? Water to me seems a more natural additive for a plant than copper sulfate.

My head is spinning like a top. This is way too technical for me to ask or understand the answer. Is she qualified to answer?

[Roberto_Rogness]

If not, THAT would be the story, no?

[G_D_y_e_r]

@Jay Selman

@G. D y e r

Why is copper sulfate permitted in Biodynamic viticulture? It is natural in some sense, but it is literally an inorganic compound and can be damaging to an ecosystem.

Also, along these lines, one of the criticism of New World viticulture is that irrigation is often necessary in these arid climates. But a positive side effect is lowered disease pressure as the lack of humidity reduces the presence of mildew. While the climate undoubtedly leads to a stylistic difference that some people prefer more than others, can one make a pure value judgment on the use of water for irrigation in an arid climate versus dry farming in a humid continental or maritime climate where copper sulfate is necessary to prevent mold, mildew and fungus? Water to me seems a more natural additive for a plant than copper sulfate.

My head is spinning like a top. This is way too technical for me to ask or understand the answer. Is she qualified to answer?

Yeah, this is probably too much. And I doubt that copper sulfate isn’t used in arid climates like CA, though it probably is used less regularly or in smaller amounts.

I do think this folds into the natural wine questions, though. Is copper sulfate ‘natural’? It certainly doesn’t occur in the vineyard unless one puts it there. But it does occur in nature. Mildew-ridden grapes will simply express mildew, so copper sulfate is promoting a certain terroir expression over spoilage. The question is where one draws the line, though, since one might argue mildew occurs naturally and therefore it is part of the terroir expression (though it will overpower everything else).

[H_Wallace_Jr]

Why the term “natural” gets so many people a pissy…

[G_D_y_e_r]

Or, here’s another one along the lines of Copper Sulfate.

One of the big trends in natural wine is not adding any sulfur dioxide. This compound occurs in nature, though, so I wonder why it shouldn’t be used in winemaking while copper sulfate is acceptable in winegrowing. Both are intended, I think, to prevent spoilage or at least an unwanted expression in the bottled wine, just at different points in the process. True, I’d rather drink Bretty or funky wine than moldy wine, but it’s another one of those questions on where and why certain lines are drawn.

[Lyle_Fass]

I’d ask her why there is so much hatred and vitriol pointed in her direction on the internet and if any of it is justified.

[Roberto_Rogness]

Lyle, I know and like Alice but I think she NEEDS that as part of her guerilla marketing.

[G_D_y_e_r]

@Lyle Fass

I’d ask her why there is so much hatred and vitriol pointed in her direction on the internet and if any of it is justified.

I think it is her tendency to speak in absolutes. One quote of hers reads (edit: paraphrasing, exact quote follows later in discussion), “all CA Pinot Noir should be ripped out.” It’s a bit of hyperbole mixed with a bit of truth–most probably is planted in the wrong places. But how can one make that statement without trying every CA Pinot Noir? Eric Asimov, who certainly falls into the nuanced and old world camp, has even found some CA Pinots to like (as well as Syrahs). One only makes such broad statements if he or she is looking to generate attention.

This is why I am curious about her views on copper sulfate and sulfur dioxide. If one preservative is bad, why not all preservatives? I could imagine someone saying “all sulfured wines are fit for dumping” if he or she was looking to provoke discussion. Perhaps it should be up to the vintner and there isn’t a label that should be applied to conscientious decisions.

[Lyle_Fass]

There’s disagreeing with her absolutes which is one thing and then there is all the vitriol I’ve seen which is another thing.

[ToddFrench]

@Lyle Fass

There’s disagreeing with her absolutes which is one thing and then there is all the vitriol I’ve seen which is another thing.

That’s the magic of e-thuggery

[Rick_Gregory]

@Lyle Fass

There’s disagreeing with her absolutes which is one thing and then there is all the vitriol I’ve seen which is another thing.

Well, that cuts both ways. When she appeared on the Natural Wines thread and was challenged she retreated to her blog instead of talking here and called us xenophobes.

Todd - pointed disagreement isn’t e-thuggery.

[Matthew_Brown]

When answering about Natural Wines, if she mentions ‘you know it when you see it’, are you allowed to use a taser? Not for the sake of malice or entertainment, but to get an actual answer.

[Cris_Whetstone]

@Rick Gregory

@Lyle Fass

There’s disagreeing with her absolutes which is one thing and then there is all the vitriol I’ve seen which is another thing.

Well, that cuts both ways. When she appeared on the Natural Wines thread and was challenged she retreated to her blog instead of talking here and called us xenophobes.

Todd - pointed disagreement isn’t e-thuggery.

Bingo. If she is going to be such an extremist and tear into people and ideas with such reckless abandon, she should expect a lot of heated disagreement. Its not as if she writes in a calm and merely questioning manner.


I would love for you guys to ask her if her style is such that she wants to stir people up. I think its very valid in light of her books, articles and blogging.

[Enzo_Ruffalo]

[Andrew_Christiansen]

What did she do to piss Tom Hill off?

[DCowell]

How does she avoid or ameliorate the perception that she has pre-judged every wine on the basis of how it was made versus what it is. Or is the wine world so clearly divided into her simple camps of good and evil?