This Wine is not Kosta Browne. A company paid a lot of money to buy the name Kosta Browne, for many reasons (The main one being to make money) I’m sure. Why anyone would expect anything resembling (The operation) Original KB always amazes me. Quit buying Kosta Browne. Find a farmer who tends good vines and buy from them for 1/4 the price and quit paying the franchise fee.
You don’t buy any wines where ownership has changed since the winery was founded?
This is a great outlook. For those who want to drink a name, enjoy the bottle. For those who enjoy the wine, drink that juice. The rest of us can spend on what we enjoy. For me, KB simply isn’t it anymore. For many, that transition from syrupy 1990’s Aussie Shiraz to Napa Cab then lead to full throttle pinot, then on to more complex, delicate pinots. At least that has been part of my journey.
Do you mean wineries like KB, Williams Selyem, Outpost, Schrader, Pahlmeyer and Siduri?
Tom
Haut Brion, DRC, Huet, and many other old world standards too.
The original question was, Has KB lost its mind in offering a wine for $120 a bottle retail?? My point is that I get offers every day for $125 bottles of Napa Cabs I have never heard of, where the winemaker once dated Heidi Peterson’s third cousin and shops where Mark Aubert buys his socks.
Now Mitch answers, It’s what floats my boat and that’s a good answer. You can’t argue taste. I think there is a Latin expression for that. But as Sly and the Family Stone once, argued, Different strokes for different folks. I don’t think that has been expressed in Latin except maybe by Darrell Corti.
About ownership: Change of ownership can be good or bad. Look what corporate ownership did to Chalone, Acacia, the original Inglenook, BV, and many others.
On the other hand, new ownership seems to be breathing life back into Heitz. With a lot of wineries ownership changes and the wine stays the course. On the other hand, sometimes ownership stays the same, a new winemaker arrives who changes everything by changing a few things.
Yes, KB bought Cherise a few years back. And to take a quick break from the bashing, they still sell grapes to Littorai which makes me very happy. Ted’s wines aren’t cheap, but at $80 his Cherise is only 2/3 the release price of the KB version. And I’d drink it every day over the KB and twice in Sundays.
Contrast this with Summa; when Rivers Marie bought that vineyard it signaled the end of Littorai’s access.
There’s a Berserker twist - bashing RM and giving KB a pass! ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
What vintages of KB are reflected by the post Kosta and Browne ownership?
I’ve continued to like the wines as an occasional change-up from the pinots I usually drink (Rhys, Kutch, Arcadian, Clos Saron, etc.), and they’ve changed considerably from the early 2000s vintages that made their initial splash, with alcohols in the low 14% and even occasionally high 13% range. Which is not to say they are AFWE by any means, but they’re solidly medium in style now rather than L or XL (within the scope of premium CA pinot overall – not using the scale of the wines which are most popular and discussed on WB).
I don’t think I’ve noticed a drop in quality from 5-10 years ago. The prices continue to inch upward and are getting into the very borderline range for me – I think I’m done buying any SVDs, which I’m not sure I like better than the appellation ones anyway, and just buying 3 or 4 appellation ones a year. But I think the wines have been good. I’m not sure I’ve opened one of the last vintage or two yet, though.
Often not. The changes are usually large and not always good. But then, I didn’t like Kosta Browne to begin with.
As a barrel pimp, I follow winery changes carefully. In the case of KB I didn’t sell much to them while they were making their powerhouse wines, but then they engaged Bernard Hervet as a consultant. This was good for me because we worked with him in Beaune. So I go to the winery and it’s customer pick up day/week/month and there are three rows, two cases wide,about sixty feet long, of wines to be picked up.
My first thought was, If ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Don’t ask me why but the new owners wanted to change style and I was happy to help. Some of the new wines we tasted didn’t hit 13% alc.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much change with new ownership.
Very good arguments made all around. The style may not be for you but it appeals to many others. And who’s to say what is ‘too expensive’ and what isn’t? Mel made some great points as usual - how many >$120 no name Napa cabs are considering ‘okay’? Too many. And some scoff at spending $45 for a Tempier Rose, arguably the best rose in the world by many.
To each their own folks - and I’ve learned that over time. Though I won’t spend the $$$ for some of the newer SBC producers, I understand why others do - again, to each their own.
Cheers.
wow real novel thread here-people whining about overpriced and over extracted wine. first time for everything.
KB - dropped
WS - never joined
Outpost - dropped
Schrader - dropped
Pahlmeyer - never joined due to rep
Siduri - never on the list but have bought many over the years. Haven’t bought one since.
Everyone should drink what pleases them, I’m not casting stones. But once an operation sells it rarely imo resembles the operation that I wanted to support in the first place.
I love to drink Dirty and Rowdy wines, they are delicious, but at least 50% of why I like to buy has nothing to do with the wine. If they ever sold I would be very happy for them, but I would have no interest in any longer supporting the name. There are lots of great wines in the world, but I’m looking to support the people who are behind some of that great produce.
I’m really not commenting on the style either, we all have different likes and palates. I was just thinking about prices increases, the reasons behind them and loyalty towards brands that are no longer the image of that in which they were created.
I’m going to admit guilt on Krug [cheers.gif] hitsfan [drinkers.gif]
Speaking of Krug…
Family owned wineries get sold in Europe too. Krug got sold twice. What will happen at Clos des Lambrays?? Domaine Engel got sold to Artemis, who also own Ch Latour and Eisele. It’s called Domaine d Eugenie…nobody talks about it anymore. Ch Margaux got sold in 1982 or so and the new owners made the '83, one of the greats. Are any of you boycotting Margaux??
Bouchard Pere et Fils got sold and now it seems better than ever.
I can see not wishing to Continue to buy something like Margaux if you were a buyer pre conglomerate. If you enjoy the wine only In relative modern times then you know what your buying from the start of your relationship. (See me with Krug). I tend start my new relationships for reasons including but usually beyond the wine.
Every winery gets sold for a reason. Ridiculous amount of money being thrown at them…getting old and nobody in the next gen wants anything to do with it…not making any money…family feuds…inheritance issues…
In the case of Ch Margaux the Ginestets were broke and sold out to a family owning a chain of grocery stores. Everybody was aghast but the new owners did a solid.
I agree with Robert that a lot of my purchases are from friends. If they sell out, it’s back to square one.
Nothing, if you like it/them. Everything if you happen to want wine.
Dan Kravitz
I was a long-time happy list member, probably from about 2004. Their wines were way outside my typical wheelhouse, but I enjoyed them…and my wife loved them. When they originally built their showy facility in the Barlow, I still enjoyed the wine. But it’s been sold a couple of times now. And the prices were on an upward trajectory after modest yearly increases in the earlier days. But they still had the same spectacular fruit sources. And after the big bombers of the early days, they had settled into a nice 14-14.5% +/- groove in the early days of the last decade.
The breaking point came in the couple of years after I read an article somewhere about a senior KB person being in New York, and a sommelier was pushing a bunch IPOB-styled, restrained California wines…and that guy had no idea who KB was. At that point, the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. There was a declaration that they were blowing up the house style in search of an IPOB style. Well, I found those wines to be increasingly uninteresting…and their expensive uninteresting wines became an easy pass.
What a travesty, I very much enjoyed these wines. I’m no longer being offered an allocation due to passing on a few releases…but I continue to be offered “wish list” selections. Which I choose to not wish for.
I remember reading that and being puzzled.
But the 2018 Sonoma Coast pinot has 14.4% alcohol. I haven’t opened one yet, but that’s clearly not a Raj type wine. I’m guessing they’re probably still making wines in the style they’ve had for the last decade or so, since they dialed back down after the early 2000s pursuit of max ripeness.
Same here, too.