The nose has amazing aromatics on this. The first time I tried this, I did not find the acid outrageous, but on my second go with it (perhaps a year later?), I did. Time could be kind(er) to it, as Tom thinks. We’ll see. During the late 80’s and 90’s, I had some Portuguese reds that had screaming acidities even on aged bottles, so this might be characteristics of the grapes used too.
I have never tried a wine from Forlorn Hope but have had a few Broc reds all from the 2011 vintage that tasted as you describe and more concerning to me tasted more like each other than they did the variety that they were made from. I have not tasted another vintage and have been wondering if its unique to the 2011s as I know a lot of folks like them but to me they just all tasted the same.
I have noticed the cranberry and acid you mention on some of the Hobo wines when first opened but those change quickly and lose that characteristic while the Broc wines maintained the same profile even on day two. I did drink them young so maybe age would help but the Hobo wines were also young and generally low alcohol so I don’t really feel age is the answer.
while the FH website may not have technical info, there is some data posted on this wine by a retailer…
From https://winelandia.com/2014/03/12/wine-of-the-week-forlorn-hope-mil-amores/
Region: US>California>Sierra Foothills>Amador County
Vineyard: DeWitt Vineyard. Sustainably farmed. Decomposed granite & quartz soils. 1300′ elevation.
Blend: Touriga Nacional, Tinto Roriz, Trincadeira
Aging: 12 months neutral oak.
Production Notes: A blend of Portugese grape varieties planted in a single block. The grapes were all picked at the same time and co-fermented. Indigenous yeast fermentation took 3 days to get going and lasted for about 2 weeks. Pressed at dryness into used oak barrels and completed malolactic fermentation in the barrel. 427 cases made.
I don’t usually think of touriga nacional and tinto roriz being high acid. I don’t know trincadeira.
Now, baga – there is a high acid grape!
This is along the lines of the thread that I started after having a Texier wine that struck me in a way that made me question the AFWE movement.
Based on the reaction I got, I don’t think the needle has swung too far back (yet) to the AFWE end of the spectrum for most. There are clearly plenty of folks out there that enjoy the tartness and minerality. For me, some wines are too lean, but by and large the movement away from over-ripe purple drank is a good thing. There are lots of producers out there that hit my sweet spot in the middle of the spectrum – probably more than there would have otherwise been without the AFWE movement. However, I just have to be worried about the extremes at both ends now, whereas it used to be very one sided.
+1
Some of Texier’s wines are a tad too high in acid for my preferences when young (and I haven’t held them long enough to know if they will flesh out more with time), but I’m a big fan of many of his wines. And I had drunk a Burlotto barbera the night before. So I think I’m on the left wing when it comes to acid. But the Forlorn Hope was way tarter than any of those wines.
I love the idea of what Matt is doing with FH. I am just about 50% on the wines, so they make for more expensive science experiments given the hit rate.
Yup, David, pretty much my same experience, but at better than 50% rate, though. Some of them the best I can say is “interesting” and they
leave me scratching my head in puzzlement…“What’s this wine supposed to be”. Sorta like Abe’s ScholiumProject wines, though
those “science experiments” are a bit more expensive.
Tom
Well, there was a nice intense plum note on the nose of the FH last night, and a bit more flesh in the mouth, but it was still too tart to want a second pour.
The funny thing is that the Alvaro Castro Dao I opened Monday when the FH was too sour is also mostly touriga nacional and tinto roriz. I didn’t know what the FH grapes were when I grabbed the Dao. Quite a different result.
I loved this wine, after the first bottle went back and bought several more. The nose was kaleidoscopic and while light-bodied I didn’t find it overly acidic, right in the middle of my wheelhouse. This was about a year ago. Different strokes.
True. IPOB, for what it is, is literal. Moderate range of ripeness. AFWE was basically a slur for anything under 14.5% ABV.
I have some insight regarding the OP. Sometimes the interplay of acid and tannin can make a wine extreme since work in the same direction. Bottle age mellowing the tannins can completely resolve this. I’ve made a few wines like this. Wines that require bottle age to be drinkable will never be mainstream.
This sentiment rings true. Not to put words in your mouth. I’ve had wines along this spectrum, let’s say, that were interesting in some ways but I found myself thinking, “this is just too much work.”
The notion of “qualifying” as IPOB is kinda silly, I hope. For the fiftieth time, the idea of “balance” being any more precise than a matter of taste is by itself silly to me. “In pursuit of a little less residual sugar and booze now that the mollydooker thing has kinda run its course” is just too long I guess.
Lee Short –
Yes, that would be us. Been making what we consider elegant, compelling and ageworthy wines, sticking to our guns and ignoring fads (watch that you don’t get hit by that pendulum as it swings right by you), but trying to connect with wine drinkers who share our stylistic preferences.
Brian McB -
Ha! Love that characterization. Yes, those of us who are members (we got in at the beginning) feel what we’re doing is making balanced wine, and realize it is entirely subjective. We are a marketing consortium, and what we’d like to do is get you to come to the tastings and try our wine – and you can decide for yourself. We don’t spend a lot of time defining our style(s) nor deriding others’. We let the wine speak for itself.
OTOH, we (Peay) submit our wines to the IPOB tasting panel every two years and there is always a possibility that, even though we’ve been making the same style of wine all along, we get voted off the island. So it goes.
Adam –
Sorry to pick a bone with you, but this is not the first time you’ve made that assertion about high malics.
It is not as if the malic acid just goes away with complete MLF. It is converted to lactic acid, which, true, is half as acidic as malic. So a juice with ‘x’ malic will finish MLF with ‘x’ lactic. Juice with 2x malic will finish MLF with 2x lactic, right? Start with more malic, end up with more lactic, right? Net, more acid. What am I missing?
Nick
It’s really about pH. Suppose I bring in two wines, one from the Sta. Rita Hills at 3.3ph with a tartaric of 4.2 and a Malic of 2.4. And then from the Sonoma Coast I bring in a wine at 3.3ph but with a tartaric of 4.2 and a Malic of 6.0. Which wine is going to end up with a lower pH post ML?
That’s the type of problem I have.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines.
BTW Nick, it was your brother Andy who recently wrote on Facebook that with IPOB California is finally getting back to “making wines of place fit for the table.” So. Apparently some folks feel comfortable defining their styles and deriding the wines of others.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Has it gone too far? In some cases, yes.
Adam-
On chemistry - don’t you think your pH concerns are about the Potassium? i bet your Sonoma Coast has much higher Potassium, which will result in a bigger pH shift regardless of the starting malic.
On Andy’s assertions about IPOB wines being more food friendly. Did he really deride other wines? Meh. Pretty weak tea. My wine goes with food, everyone else’s less so. Doesn’t everyone say this? Doesn’t your wine go with food? Does it taste like my wine? (no)
Don’t you belong to any advocacy groups? Family Winemakers? World of Pinot? Pinot Days? I know, we both pour at Pinotfest - your wine must taste like my wine! So what of those Pinots not poured at Pinotfest? Not very good, eh? Probably shouldn’t adorn a dining table…
In Pursuit of Bullshit
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