Help needed building a cellar

WINE TALK
21

Wow, thank you all. Soo much information!
I just ordered Gold’s book so looks like I will have a lot of reading to do!
I will update this thread once I know more :slight_smile:

22

After being able to complete other projects upstairs, I finally had some time to do the framing of the basement.
I’ve decided against doing closed cell foam because I have so much I need to do in other areas, I’ve decided to keep the cellar cost to a minimum…
So it will be passive and I’m fine with the temp going to the mid 60s or a bit above in the summer as long as it’s a slow rise.
The partition wall was framed with 2x6 so I’m planning R-21 as the thickness is 5.5 inch. For the ceiling I could/will do R-30 between the joists.
The partition wall and ceiling will be drywalled. For the 2 concrete walls (windowed 1 is facing N and the other 1 is facing E) I don’t plan on putting drywall as this is not a showing cellar but a budget 1 :smiley:
The window will be plugged with reflective film and insulation.

Can I add something like that on these 2 walls?:

Thinking of using construction adhesive and having the shiny side facing the cellar so it looks somewhat decent :wink:

Again, I’m not trying to have something amazing, just something that is functional and keeps the temps relatively steady.
The basement is in great shape. No water or damp smell or anything like that as you can get in some basements so I just want to make sure I will not having any issues in the future.
I appreciate any comments/concerns I could get.

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The tubes I’m planning on using to store the wine.

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23

Nice progress there. I think the shiny side is supposed to face the exterior. The rational being that you’re reflecting energy back away from the insulated room.

24

Also, the shiny foil is the vapor closed side and any condensation is most likely to occur on the surface of the concrete foundation walls. I used a product called Insofast which allowed me get R10 without building a stud wall. The product is EPS and has plastic “studs” 16 OC that you can easily attach drywall to. You glue it to the wall using construction adhesive. You can get the product with channels pre-cut for electrical if needed.

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25

call Brian Tuite.

26

Thanks!
Oh, I thought I had read somewhere that the shiny side could be on the inside of the room…

27

Thanks for the Insofast recommendation, Jon!
The question is, do I really need something? I would be ok leaving the walls bare but would that create problems down the line. If not, would I gain anything doing it?

28

Sorry but I have no idea who that is.

29

He is referring to this thread:

by Brian Tuite who is building an amazing cellar and tasting room - but he has skills and equipment far beyond the knowledge of amateurs like us.

When we built our house above Eugene, OR in 2005, we asked our architect to put in a passive wine cellar. The city decided it was a windowless “bedroom” and required that it have an HVAC register installed (and foamboard insulation on the exterior concrete walls separating the cellar from the crawl space under the house, which was fine).

We have noticed in recent years (especially last June when the high temp up here in the hills reached 113F) that the wine cellar temp had been edging up toward 70F. Short term fix was to open the HVAC vent and run AC into the cellar which kept it nice and cool. Did drop the humidity, but better that than cooking the wine…

30

Could you not have called it a storage closet? Well it looks like having that HVAC register helped.

Is the reasoning behind insulating the ceilings of semi below grade passive cellars, to prevent warm air from seeping down from the rest of the house?

31

No, it’s to prevent the coolth of the cellar from rising up. [snort.gif] In other words, yes. You are trying to keep a box cool, so it is better to insulate all sides. Would you expect a cooler to stay cool if you didn’t insulate the lid? [bow.gif]

32

Temperatures “edging up toward 70F” is going to cook the wine? That’s ridiculous.

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33

“edging up” means close to 70 and rising. You want to keep your wine over 70F, that’s your business. My understanding is that repeated temp fluctuations can move air in and out of the corks raising risk of oxidation. No, 70F for a little while will not seriously damage the wine, but I never had to worry about it until the last few years. Things are changing.

34

Construction note. This doorway needs a cripple holding the header up.
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The inner stud should be supporting the header. Like in this photo:
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It helps with weight distribution and keeps the doorway square preventing sticky doors.

35

Thanks Brian, I fixed the framing for the door.
Ok, It’s all finished!
Remember, this is not a showing piece and the goal was to keep the cost down. So far I’m happy with the results but time will tell, I guess :slight_smile:
I decided to leave the 2 exterior walls uncovered and I used Trusscore for the ceiling and the 2 interior walls.
To resume, framing was 2x6, R-21 insulation in the walls and ceiling.
I made some ghetto shelving for my magnums :smiley:
Temperature has been ranging from 54 to 55.5 deg. for the past week. We will see how it looks this summer.

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36

Don’t you know that this is supposed to take at least a year to complete and that you’re supposed to have lots of setbacks along the way? You did it all wrong! [swearing.gif]

Congrats, looks great!

37

I really like the look of the shelving.

38

This is the easiest way to create a climate controlled storage area. My cellar utilizes home AC and cool ground temperatures during the rest of the year to average 55F /65% humidity year round, with highs in the 56-58 range and lows in the 51-53 range. I do use an evaporative cooler to keep humidity up in the winter.

39

Looks great, nice job!

40

This is a great looking cellar - well done! The only place I might have put any more money was to substitute plywood for the oriented strandboard for the shelves on the right - mostly a personal thing against the look of the OSB but also a question mark about whether it will catch on the cases stored on the shelves.

Congrats.