I agree with the last few posts. The RS doesn’t necessarily indicate the perceived level of dryness of the wine, because the perceived dryness largely depends on the level of acidity. It’s the same reason that a Brut Nature Champagne doesn’t always taste as dry as as some Bruts, despite having a lower dosage.
I might actually be. My apologies, just checked the reports. All my wines went to less than 0.4% not 0.4g/L. I confused the two.
So, your posts on this topic are commercial? About how you are doing drier than anyone else?
That was anecdotal only, I’ve posted before in other Riesling threads on how I find it very hard to find truly dry ones. Like here:
I don’t think Adam’s discussion here is exciting the Riesling lovers, the opposite if he is trying to sell his wine.
To be honest, his posts here contrasting his Rieslings to Rieslings made by everyone else in the world even have me wondering if all his anti-Chardonnay posts are about furthering his winery. Hard to know, but I must admit for at least a while I will be reading his posts wondering what his motivations are, esp. since all the ones I have read are trashing the wines of others. I admit that I have only read his posts on these two threads and he may have posts in a lot of other threads that are totally different.
Sigh. This board.
Adam, Out of curiosity, what dry German rieslings have you tried to come to your conclusion? Vintage could be a factor as well, if you’ve had mostly softer vintages. I find the idea that German trocken riesling isn’t dry enough difficult to reconcile with the wines I’ve had. They’ve been amongst the driest and most acidic wines I’ve ever consumed. That’s based solely on my perception though, no idea about actual RS numbers. Personally I tend to prefer kabinett or feinherb riesling (though I should probably explore GGs a bit more to get a better understanding of the style). I tend to drink riesling with SE Asian foods most often and the sweetness seems to work well in that context as long as it’s kept in check with high acidity.
I will not say that I am excited. I will try just about nay Riesling though. I do think, based on what he has said, that he has it all wrong, but who knows. Perhaps he knows better than hundreds, if not thousands of vintners who have made outstanding Riesling over the last 50 years.
But “later pick, bone dry” sounds like a recipe for an alcoholic train wreck.
Good points here. In my experience, you like to have a dry riesling, have an Oz one from Pewsey Vale ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
.
Not exciting was my point.
Knochentrocken! Can’t decide if it’s got a great ring to it, or if I want to giggle my ass off when saying it. ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
A bone dry Trocken can easily contain 4-5 g/l. Acid over
7 g/l.
And most of them are best after 15-20 years in the cellar
Did you try that, Adam?
Does Thiese still use the perception of sweetness scale?
Ian S. - I had not tried saying it out loud until you pointed that out! Thanks, that did give me a laugh!
Great read. While I appreciate the technical debate that followed, I was surprised no one mentioned the wonderful story told, with the book, the journey, the old man and his kids, and the bottle. I love stuff like that!
You’ve created an interesting debate Adam which links to the passion that many on this board (if not the general public) feel about Riesling.
I’ve historically been in the off-dry Riesling camp with a love of Mosel kabinett and spätlese styles which still make up the majority of my Riesling cellar; however, I have been delving more and more into drier styles as time goes on (Wittmann is one producer that I have been enjoying and tucking into the cellar). Crucially for my palate though is the need for fruit richness: fruit sweetness would be another term for this yet I’m not talking about rs per se. For me, that richness is necessary to balance that incredibly bright acidity (and low ph) of drier Rieslings, putting flesh on the spine of the wine both for immediate drinking and for future maturity. For me, it’s never about the numbers, but about the balance.
Here in New Zealand; while we have wine regions stretching more than 1500km north to south, we are inherently a cool-climate country. Off-dry Rieslings have been the way that winemakers created balance earlier on. Around 15-20 years ago, a number of producers began dabbling with dry styles and touted their ageing potential. Most have turned out to be train wrecks with age, showing shrill, paint-stripper acidity with the fruit having fallen away. I remember a retail tasting with a winemaker who espoused an utterly bone dry style of Riesling and it was just so severe, that it was actually difficult to drink.
More recently, vine age, better viticulture, management of crop loads and climate change are all leading to far more successful dry styles here, with that fruit richness and intensity creating a lovely synergy with the racy acidity. Mind you, I’m still reluctant to cellar local dry versions and am relying on friends dragging out occasional bottles to see if I should change my stance?
I’m just curious if anyone has tried Eva Fricke’s wines. Ive gotten a couple offers for them but don’t know much about them. Thoughts?
Giggle away. We should not be creating new categories for a guy who is ITB, but clearly does not understand Riesling.
I know a few people whose palates I respect and who prefer dry Riesling who really like the wines, but personally they come off as somewhat shrill and I don’t really get it. I think you have to try for yourself.
I enjoyed her 2013 Riesling Lorch a lot last year while being stuck at the Arlanda airport in Stockholm (fortunately they have a nice wine bar!). It was on the dry side most definitely with high, brisk acidity yet it was not one bit austere. Nicely minerally with deliciously tangy lime-driven fruit. A super energetic wine.
I’ve had a few. The regular Rheingau Trocken isn’t particularly interesting, but the higher-tier ones are. The style is lean and crisp, but more in the vein of “electric” than austere. Steely and mineral, as one’d expect from a Rheingau Riesling.
It’s interesting that the part Fricke’s vineyards are located - the westernmost extremes of Rheingau - is long past the bend of Rhine, thus basically in Mittelrhein wine region (and actually the vineyards lying on the opposite side of the river are Mittelrhein, not Rheingau), but since the vineyards are located in the administrative region of Hesse, they’ve been always considered to be part of the Rheingau wine region. From geological point of view, however, the westernmost reaches of Rheingau are similar to the Mittelrhein region, not as much to the greater Rheingau region located before the Rhine bend.