Everyone says Italian wine needs age, yet this latest wine was a 2008 Barolo from a reputable maker that to me tasted old.
Im sure there are some great Italian bottles but they are very hard to find
Alan
Indeed it’s personal taste and nebbiolo in particular can visually appear to be much older than it is (that’s just a varietal thing). In addition, despite the modernist movement in Piemonte, it’s really not a wine to buy for bold fruit.
If I had to suggest something that might appeal, it would be Amarone. Not cheap, but the elevated alcohol (15-18%) from the grape drying process give a rich mouthfeel. Speri would be a safe starting point. Also worth trying is the red dessert wine Recioto di Valpolicella - similarly from dried grapes, but not fermented to dryness.
Beyond that there will be pockets of wines that might interest, in Puglia, Marche and especially Sicilia, but based on your overview (and taking Champagne as an outlier) it might be better to explore Portugal, Australia, Argentina and South of France before forcing the issue with Italy.
Phill
Yes, Sassicaia is a prestigious wine, built to last - and may be as challenging as a young long-term Bordeaux. More of an intellectual experience than a pleasurable one at only a few years old. The funkiness is something I like and seek in Italian wines, though it is far from ubiquitous.
Gerhard
That really does vary by person. I’ve tasted some wonderful mature nebbiolo wines from the 50s 60s and 70s, some of which still had plenty of life, but not one I can recall that was still ‘unready’. Also a few that had shuffled off early, and that is one of the chances we take if we like the delicate complexity of maturity.
regards
Ian
Im just the opposite. Almost every time I have an Italian wine I think “Why am I not drinking more of this stuff”? Its the next country slated for me to try and start understanding.
Alan, who told you that Damilano is a reputable maker? They make decent Barolos, but when you can buy Vajra, Produttori (granted, it’s barbaresco), and Vietti Castiglione Falletto in the price range you noted, there is absolutely zero reason to be buying Damilano.
Generalizing from single bottles is a terrible idea, I can’t speak to what you drank, but overall Nebbiolo ages quite slowly. But none if this is lush or full bodied. Try expanding your textural palate beyond just a search for density.
Fred
Indeed such aged wines are almost a different drink to youthful rich-fruited wines. With those it’s the intensity that makes you go “wow!”, whilst with mature nebbiolo it’s the delicacy and complexity that offers aromas and taste that is potentially different to any wine you could recall tasting. For me both have their place, in the same way that wine and beer both have their place.
Ta for the recco on Schiavenza. We’re off to the region soon, and as we’re staying near them, were planning to stroll over there for a tasting and to eat at their restaurant. Nice to get a positive reinforcement of that idea, so I really have to get cracking on getting things organised!
regards
Ian
I am just using this as a latest example of what I always find.
What you call density, I call pleasure. I would say the opposite and ask why you would buy such watery thin wines
I started in the early 2000’s with Oregon pinot which evolved to CA pinots then syrah. I also buy CA cabs and branch out all over the world with whites probably buying less chardonnay than I used to. Due to a few recent trips with most likely more in the future (Italian family), I have started drinking Italian wines. I’ve started playing around with different sangiovese and nebbiolo wines and will probably stock up on some 2008’s and 2010’s to start aging some for later in life. I’ve really enjoyed nerello mascalese from Etna and at the price point have found some ones that I really enjoy. Maybe it is the enjoyment of exploring a new wine area and/or the excitement of planning future trips (and ultimately learning Italian) that has pushed me to Italian wines. It may also be that I feel like I know the domestic producers that I like and buy off mailing lists (Rhys, Kutch, Rivers Marie, Thomas, Belle Pente, EIEIO, Carlisle, Bedrock, SQN, Arcadian, etc…) and they provide me with a wide variety of domestic options. I fill in the gaps with bargain hunting and inexpensive finds. The thing that I really appreciate is that I am now having a lot of fun learning, tasting and buying Italian wines.
Check out Tenuta Moneteti Caburnio. Under $20, big super-Tuscan blend. It’s delicious, pretty forward, but very much Italian. And don’t try to change your palate to like certain wine. If you don’t like it, cool. I would avoid Neb, though, based on your stated preferences.
I didn’t question why you buy anything. I’m saying expand, not change entirely. Sometimes I enjoy a more lush wine, a CA cab or No Rhone Syrah, but what in saying is that there is a lot to appreciate in more delicate wines. I think they work with a wider range of food and they refresh where denser wines fatigue.
That’s like saying I don’t get wine from California or France. Are they all the same? It sounds like you have had a limited number of wines. Maybe try some super Tuscans, or Nero D’Avala. Don’t just base your opinion on Nebbiolo. Expect more acid and less sweetness though. I love Italian wines, partially for those reasons.
Fine. You probably don’t have the requisite Mediterranean soul, and that’s okay, not everybody does.
I don’t particularly ‘get’ the love for Californian cabernet, so I simply don’t play in that space. Nobody says you have to love everything.
Ian- I’m right there with you. I don’t have a problem drinking Barolo young to get a gauge on the vintage. I appreciate the power and intensity of the wine. Amazing on those 2 2001’s after 15 years they were terrific but many on the board would say they were too young and I could see that point.
Nice to hear about your trip. It’s on my list of future travels. Please post about it and let us know how it goes. The 08 Schiavenza base Serralunga is also very good. I’m interested in how the 10’s are.
cheers
Fred
Too broad brush of a statement Alan. I’d bet a dollar against a dime that there are many Italian wines if tasted blind you, you’d love. I own a lot of Italian wine but there are also tons of Italian wine I don’t like either because of the producer style or the peculiar grape like Freisa from Piedmont. I no longer think of myself as a big fan of CA wines in general but there are still many wines from CA that I do love though like Roederer Brut Mendcino and Mt Eden PNs. I’d never say I don’t get CA wines categorically.
This is why they make both chocolate and vanilla.
I’m with John Fodera… more for us who like these wines, and we appreciate your not competing with us for the same wines.
Inexpensive Italian whites are some of the best wines IMO.
Alan, looking for any Barolo is going to be as juicy as the California wines you crave will drive you crazy. That’s not what Barolo is about. You may find something closer to your palate preference with some Super Tuscans, Amarone, Sagrantino di Montefalco, Taurino’s Patriglione, or some over-the-top Barberas to name a few. As has been mentioned several times already, Italian wines, generally speaking, show better with food. The Italians seem to get that wine is a food more than a beverage.
Fred, I can’t imagine drinking Barolo with Amatriciana. For me, it’s Aglianico, Barbera, or Sangiovese.
It’s even more ridiculous than that. Italy produces the greatest variety of wine styles of any single country. Then you add in the “I don’t like these wines so they’re not good” factor, and it is completely ridiculous.
I myself cannot find a good Pinot below $20 (if even $25). And a good Champagne starts at $35. So the Italian wine costs are not so unreasonable, except in the case of Barolo and perhaps Brunello.
Best deals if you like the style are in Chianti. The 2011 Felsina Chianti, not the greatest vintage for them, but still good, is $18 at Premier Cru. A bunch of them were going for less than $25.
The style of these wines is initially “fruity”, although they develop a sharper more aromatic character with some bottle age. Sour cherry, maybe even balsamico on the nose.
A brown 2008 Barolo just sounds like a bad bottle. Should not be brown at that age (or any age, properly stored)…
that one could be a very rough way for him to get into Italian wines (if alan ever does). But, I think those mentioning Amarone and Super Tuscans are very spot on. Amarone might be tough though given him wanting to spend between $20-50 (ripassos are the most likely answer here)