I’m sorry but I just don’t get the original post. If it is wine preference, then so be it but Italy makes a huge variety of wine in almost any style you can imagine short of Jura. Italian wines are made for food. simple quaffing wines are low priced and intended to go in a carafe unannounced as to the origin other than to know it was probably made within 20-30 km of where you were drinking it. Italian wines, like most European wines take some time to learn. What grapes are in what wines, what regions are where, etc. Most people apparently want that all listed for them on the bottle as if that makes a big difference. Arguably, Italy makes some of the best wines in the world as Brunello, Barolo, or Barbaresco. But they like food as do I and go well with meats, pastas, and grilled vegies. So, sorry you have written off the rest of the world out of California but I would not be too quick unless you are quite a bit older. California will have trouble producing good wine over the next 10-20 years as the climate heats up and their effective growing regions shrink. So, you will then have to look everywhere for good wine.
Well…
I’m not sure the OP wants to find an Italian wine that they want to appreciate. At the start of this thread, the OP states that he is trying not to be argumentative, but then follows that up by saying stuff such as Italian wine is “table wine at best”, and later asking why someone would by such watery and thin wines. The post has definitely gotten the attention of many on this board, as we approach post #50 in no time.
The beauty of wine is that there are customers for all different regions and styles, and that variety is what makes wine tasting and sharing wines with others so damn compelling as a hobby. My deep dives in wine has taken me from Washington, to California, Australia, France and now Italy. Having tasted aged examples of Giusseppe Mascarello, Bartolo Mascarello, Vietti and Giusseppe Rinaldi, I am absolutely positive this is where I want to commit the majority of my wine buying budget right now and into the foreseeable future. And the wines from these producers are fantastic up and down their entire lineup. But then again, I now know that I really like traditionally made wine, to have with meals and enjoy with friends. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
In general, I find Italian wine has more complexity and interesting flavors and CA wine is too fruit forward and one dimensional. I would say that real men drink Italian wine and girly men drink CA wine.
Well not everyone can have a good palate ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
Seriously tho If you need fruitier and ready to drink try Nero d’Avola.
I imagine if Tuscany was a starting point it might be easier to “get”. I love Nebbiolo, but a 2008 Barolo is unlikely to match your described palate preference.
Tuscany has a wide variety of styles & price ranges and I believe you are more likely to match your style preference there. A stark difference with a lot of Italian wine & American wine is that many US wines are quite enjoyable as a cocktail while stuff like your 2008 Barolo should be enjoyed w/food.
Now that’s a good idea. There are many good rich / bold Barbera wines, with a significant oak treatment on top. One of the few wines I really like them turning the dial up to 11. Plenty in budget.
You’re probably right, Keith. I was thinking–with enough cellar time–these powerful wines might be in the OP’s wheel house. Maybe…
Also, good add re: Ripasso.
It’s hard to know how to respond without knowing what other wines you’ve been drinking. Damilano is not on anyone’s list of top producers. It’s not even on the B list. Dismissing Italian wines based on that would be like dismissing Burgundy because you had a dilute, tough wine from a mediocre negociant like, say, Patriarch. Moreover, 2008 is not a fruity vintage for nebbiolo; it is a somewhat tough vintage that will need a lot of time. Again, it would be like saying you don’t like Bordeaux or Burgundy because you’d had some 05s where the tannins curled your gums back.
As for the color, nebbiolo is naturally light in pigments, so the only purple or inky Barolos are those aged in small oak barrels (which fixes the colors) or adulterated with cabernet or merlot or syrah or something. The grape has a somewhat brickish garnet hue from an early age; it’s not at all purple like young cab or syrah. If it was actually brown, then something was wrong, but I can see how you might use that term if you aren’t familiar with the hue.
You’re right that Italian reds tend to be high in acidity and often tannins, as well (particularly Barolo), and that may not be your cup of tea. Given the things you say you like, your palate may simply lean in another direction.
It would indeed be a dull world if everyone liked and drank the same wine…and there would not likely be enough to go around. ![[swoon.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f425e8dac3e7344bee264da02e55428971be23a9.gif "swoon"){kind=small}
Personally I like a number of Italian wines ranging from Tuscany on through Piemonte, and even beyond. I also cellar and enjoy many wines from Argentina, Australia, Burgundy, Bordeaux, California, other regions in France, Portugal, Spain, etc.
Not sure what the initial post was intended to convey, but, if Alan doesn’t care for Italian wines, he hasn’t expanded his horizons very far - that much I do understand, and he should stick to those wines that he does like. I’m really puzzled why he felt the need to post on this in the first place.
Hank
Well I know the cure for Alan’s confusion: visit Italy. A few days in Rome wandering those dusty history-soaked streets, sipping varietals from up and down Italy with the massive diversity of “Italian” food will awaken at least an interest in Italian wine. After that, for respite and quiet spend a few days in Montalcino and immerse yourself in Tuscan cuisine, gaze over the gorgeous green hills, and sample as many different local sangiovese-based wines as you can fill your cup with. Then report back 
.
But seriously, part of the fun and challenge of wine for me is the absolutely amazing diversity of flavors, tastes, balance, etc. in wine. Every region seems horrifyingly impenetrable at first, then after years of tasting, testing, and buying, I find that I am a comfortable novice still, and there’s that much more for me to enjoy. In Italy alone there are 100,000 producers (really!) working with 5000 different grape varietals.
One month, I only want to enjoy what I know I love (hello '78 Cheval … I will weep when the last of my case is gone) and at other times I just want to try something new every day. Wine is a gracious guest, with many pleasures to offer.
I have no doubt that there are 100 wines from Italy that you will love. Is it worth bothering hunting to find them? Your call.
Not sure about the point of the post. I love Italian wines, don’t like California wines. I like jazz, don’t like heavy metal.
+1 to Nick on inexpensive Italian whites. If I run out of wine and funds in my retirement, it will be Italian whites and Beaujolais red.
Of course, there are many reds from Italy that I don’t like. Way to modern. I’m sure you’d like them. An example would be Feudi di San Gregorio Aglianico Irpinia Serpico 2001. Parker gave it 98 points (a sure sign I won’t like it).
Well, for starters, there is no such thing as “Italian Wine” anymore than there is “African Music” or “Chinese Food”. Here is a rant-a-torial on this from our web site:
First time visitor to our shop: “So, you guys sell a lot of Italian Wine…I don’t really like Italian wine…”
Our retort: “That’s ok because there’s really no such thing as Italian wine anyway.”
Say WHAT?!?! What we DO offer are hundreds of different styles of wine made from scores of different grapes grown in vineyards with locations ranging from steep Alpine slopes on the Swiss and Austrian borders through the broad plains of the Po Valley all the way to a volcanic tropical island not far from Tunisia, resulting in wines that have nothing at all in common with one another other than which government they pay their taxes to (or not!).
Geographic, geologic, viticultural and climatic differences between the thousands of wine producing zonas aside (and they are VAST), what we consider “Italy” is a very recent invention in historic terms. The boundaries we use now date from the founding of the current republic in 1946 and parts of Friuli and all of Trentino / Alto Adige were not “Italian” until 1919. In broader historic terms, Venice was an independent City State for centuries, with holdings in both the modern day Veneto and coastal Slovenia and Croatia, only becoming part of Italy in 1866, while your favorite Barolo producers’ great great grandfathers were not “Italian” but subjects of The Kingdom of Sardinia, Cyprus and Jerusalem, Duchy of Savoy & Montferrat and Principality of Piedmont.! What are now some of our go-to regions for both fun, food friendly wines and incredible value for money, Puglia, Sicily, Calabria and Campania, were all part of the original Greek colonization of the peninsula called Magna Graecia (Greater Greece), which existed for centuries before there WERE any Romans let alone an “Italy” and those Greek cultural roots are still readily apparent in the dialects, architecture and wines of those zonas.
So, what’s our point? Simple: We don’t sell “Italian Wine”, we offer an insane diversity of styles of wine that happen to come from what, for this moment in history, is called Italy. And, like “African Music”, “European Art” or “Chinese Food”, the wines of Italy are a virtually endless field ripe for exploration, contemplation and enjoying with friends. Cheers!
I’m not at all bothered that Alan hasn’t had an Italian wine yet that he likes. I am however somewhat shaken that Gerhard would say what he has. I had assumed that any red burgundy lover would swoon over just the nose of a fine Barolo or Barbaresco with a little age (I do).
This
and this
For me, the greatest thing about Italian wines is the diversity of them. And it’s easiest to break down their regions like this -
Piedmonte is Burgundy, and the hardest to understand. Nebbiolo in it’s youth may be the most stubborn red grape in the world, don’t even think about touching a Barolo or Barbaresco (from a good producer) until it’s at least ten years old.
Tuscany is Bordeaux. Easier to understand, but can still be quite lean and mean in their youth. Sangiovese can flower in so many directions, pick ripe and you have one kind of wine, pick with lower sugars and you get a lean, mean fighting machine. Again, the top wines need a minimum of ten years in the bottle to really blossom.
Alto Adige & Friuli are the Pacific Northwest. The whites from both regions are literally unsurpassed. Lagrein and some of the Bordeaux varietals from Collio in Friuli are also juicy, ripe wines that really might be up your alley as well. Try an upscale Merlot from Collio, or a Lagrein from Alto Adige and see what happens.
CALIFORNIA: This is Southern Italy, if you like big, slutty reds, go for the Aglianico from Campania in all of it’s forms, the better ones are an incredible revelation. especially from the Vulture and Taurasi appellations. Ditto with the bigger reds from Sicily.
So, don’t dismiss Italy until you have sampled the reds from Southern Italy and the Alps - they are the closest to what your palate is craving.
Interesting Tom, and I guess if your speaking of reds, then not a bad comparison. I’d probably preface that IGT from Tuscany is even closer to CA, then many Chianti Classicos. I also find the Merlots from Friuli more refined and elegant than those from CA, but admitidly, I’ve not tasted a CA Merlot in many years. I’ve been getting into Sicilian reds, especially those from Etna and Faro. I find quite a few that compare well to Burg. Then there are the De Bartoli Marsalas…
I believe that it was Luca Currado (current proprietor of Vietti) who, after a visit to the U.S., remarked that he now understood why U.S. wines generally tend to be sweet(er): they needed to be so to accompany typical American cooking. On the other hand, the Italian wines that I enjoy are high in acidity, taut, linear, cool, dry and maybe even lean. They are not for sipping, but with authentic Italian food, there is nothing like them. They plump up beautifully and are clean and refreshing. I don’t know much about what is available from Italy in the ripe, plump, dense, low-acid style, but there is an endless number, red and white, in the style that I enjoy, particularly from Piedmont, Valle d’Aosta and surrounding areas. Many don’t need age to be delicious (at the table), and they needn’t be expensive. Many are in the $20 range. Indeed, they are “table wines” (which, in my opinion, shouldn’t be sweet, dense and flaccid), as intended. As has been stated here, to each their own, but if you are looking among the Italian producers who reguarly get discussed here by the savvy Italian collectors on this board for “big wines,” you are going to be disappointed every time. It sounds like this has been Alan’s experience. Alan, if you are looking for advice, mine would be to look in Tuscany and Sicily, where there is lots wine made that is too big for my taste, but which may be right in your wheelhouse.
AND THIS–pretty snotty original post IMO. That’s not being argumentative?
Yes, in a country of about 26 regions, all of which are wine producers, inside which exist a variety of sub-production zones with a multitude of topography, soils, even climate, it is silly to claim that there is such a thing as “Italian wine”.
Piedmont and Tuscany: two down; 24 regions to go (and wonder of wonder, some of them are not acidic).
Oh well, I should have read the whole thread–Roberto covered it best.
I do, however, wonder: it seems to me that the best part of being “into” wine is the exploration, so why don’t people explore rather than wallow in ruts?
Brad- Any suggestions on producers ? I’ve had a few barbera but lower end ones at a restaurant that didn’t do much for me. I am looking to expand beyond nebillio and brunello. As for paring with Amatriciana i like Nebillio with any tomato based sauce but i do drink most of them on the young side so they have plenty of verve to hold up. A bit of thread drift but i also love a Cali Field blend as well as long as its got good acid and not on the flabby side. Bedrock or Lamborn Zin work well imo.