Is it just me? Napa vs Bordeaux QPR

[H_Wallace_Jr]

They are quite different, so it’s simply a matter of preferences.

This.

[Chris_Seiber]

This is really a much more interesting question if you replace Napa with Northern California. Wines like Dehlinger, Mount Eden, Ridge, Big Basin, Cabot, Kathryn Kennedy, Clos Saron / Renaissance, A Rafanelli, Briceland, Arnot-Roberts, and many others.

Actually, I’m still not sure it’s that interesting of a question. No consumer has to pick one region over the other, as though you’re choosing who to root for in a sporting event or something. Just buy the individual wines that you want to buy. I find things I like from both places.

[bob_poirier]

Bordeaux is only a better QPR if you prefer Bordeaux to Napa…

[Nick_F]

The hardest part for me, is when I think of Bordeaux, I think cellar and wait. When I think the napa market in the 2-50 price range has become a more pop and pour wine.

This is what prevents me from getting into BDX

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Many Bdx taste more like Napa then Bdx
Unfortunately

[Howard_Cooper]

Macdonald at $165 does not have a match in Bdx

That’s why you can’t buy it for $165

Hahahah that’s true. But I actually disagree there’s no match.
Ducru? Cos? Pichon lalande? Conseilante?
Not saying it’s better than MacD but it’s in the same league no?

Montrose - 2014 is $149
Pichon Lalande - 2014 is $139
Ducru - 2000 is $200 [for a wine almost 20 years old!!!]

[David_Bu3ker]

For my palate, I prefer Napa. But, I’m open to finding good Bordeaux values, especially under $50, where Napa does struggle more. Suggestions most definitely welcome.

Since you are more of a Napa fan, try to find a bottle of 2015 Haut Bergey. Should run you about $30-$35.

[Larry_Stein]

What traditional style Bordeaux is in the $30-50 range? I thoroughly dislike modern style Cab/Cab blends no matter where they’re from. Through friends, I can get 2016 Ridge Estate Cab for $45.50 (30% discount). For me, that’s the gold standard in CA. What Bordeaux is in that class?

[Andrew_Demaree]

Thanks, David.

[Glen_Gold]

What traditional style Bordeaux is in the $30-50 range? I thoroughly dislike modern style Cab/Cab blends no matter where they’re from. Through friends, I can get 2016 Ridge Estate Cab for $45.50 (30% discount). For me, that’s the gold standard in CA. What Bordeaux is in that class?

Others might disagree with this, but I’ve always felt that Dame de Montrose is to Montrose what Ridge Estate is to Monte Bello. You can pick it up for about $40-50 in most years. There are also vintages like 2014 in which Domaine de Chevalier comes out around $50, though that’s becoming rarer.

[Gabe_Berk]

IMO, the best California can compete with Bordeaux as far as QPR for $50-100 is Chappellet Signature Cab. $60 for pretty much all estate fruit who’s neighbors include Colgin, Bryant and Continuum to name a few. Usually in the 93-96 pts range from the reviewers. And family owned!

As a whole Bordeaux offers much more $50-$100 QPR wines. Especially $20-$30 range.

[Robert.A.Jr]

IMO, the best California can compete with Bordeaux as far as QPR for $50-100 is Chappellet Signature Cab. $60 for pretty much all estate fruit who’s neighbors include Colgin, Bryant and Continuum to name a few. Usually in the 93-96 pts range from the reviewers. And family owned!

As a whole Bordeaux offers much more $50-$100 QPR wines. Especially $20-$30 range.

Solid recommendation, as would be the Ridge Estate Cab.

[Pat_Martin]

They are quite different, so it’s simply a matter of preferences.

Yes.

Thus the OP is correct, but primarily when someone likes both regions.

[David_Bu3ker]

They are quite different, so it’s simply a matter of preferences.

Yes.

Thus the OP is correct, but primarily when someone likes both regions.

For fans of classic Napa Cabernet, Bordeaux is a treasure trove. For fans of classic Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet is a mine field.

[Pat_Martin]

They are quite different, so it’s simply a matter of preferences.

Yes.

Thus the OP is correct, but primarily when someone likes both regions.

For fans of classic Napa Cabernet, Bordeaux is a treasure trove. For fans of classic Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet is a mine field.

I concur. Classic is the key word.

But overall, I meant that the premise of the thread can really only apply to those who can readily enjoy various producers from both styles/regions.

[Thomas_Keim]

Who cares? They are entirely different wines. Like Comparing California Pinot Noir with Burgundy.

[A1ex_H]

Sure it’s about preferences but at this point, after what has happened in Burgundy and the Northern Rhone, non-trophy Bordeaux has become some of the best QPRs in red wine.

[David_Bu3ker]

Who cares? They are entirely different wines. Like Comparing California Pinot Noir with Burgundy.

Bordeaux can still scratch the Cabernet (or Merlot) itch, especially the more modern wines. Wines such as Fombrauge are less about St. Emilion and more about ripe Merlot.

[Tom_Reddick]

Who cares? They are entirely different wines. Like Comparing California Pinot Noir with Burgundy.

I think it is a useful conversation in this context because there is, at least in the United States, a fair amount of overlap when it comes to those who collect Bordeaux and those who collect CA Cab.

During my retail years while in college and grad school, I discovered that most of the higher end collectors I worked with tended to specialize to some degree. And, for a variety of reasons, the overlap varied depending on the region.

For example- I do not recall anyone who was a major collector of both Burgundy and CA Pinot. Sure many who collected one might often have a very little bit of the other- but never was anyone actively buying both at similar levels.

Italy, on the other hand, seemed to be everyone’s friend. Whether Italy specialists, Bordeaux, Burgundy or Cab lover- almost everyone bought good Italian wines in some measure. Same goes for Champagne.

The Bordeaux - CA Cab overlap is somewhere in between, and having been on the front lines, in retail and later in appraisal and being a market follower in general, during the various booms and busts since the mid 90s, I have found that there is not only a large contingent who have a shared loved for Bordeaux and CA Cab- but that many of them adjust their buying strategies over time to focus on where they see the best value for their money. A sort of dollar cost averaging approach to the wine cellar, if you will. I really do not see this much in any other pairing of two regions- the latter point I mean.

[David_Glasser]

Yes.

Thus the OP is correct, but primarily when someone likes both regions.

For fans of classic Napa Cabernet, Bordeaux is a treasure trove. For fans of classic Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet is a mine field.

I concur. Classic is the key word.

But overall, I meant that the premise of the thread can really only apply to those who can readily enjoy various producers from both styles/regions.

Nicely summarized. In the $20-$50 range especially, and even at $50-$100, there is a lot from Bordeaux that satisfies my palate, not so much from Napa. Yet I still like Napa Cab.

The first 10 years or so of my wine obsession I pursued Napa Cab and Bordeaux almost equally, drinking the former while waiting for the latter to mature. I didn’t seek best value for money as Tom has observed but almost the opposite, buying more in the “best” vintages. My definition of best has shifted along with my palate and I now buy a lot more Bordeaux than Napa, but I still buy Napa selectively.