is Nuits les SAINT GEORGES worthy of grand cru status?

[Marcus_Dean]

Haven’t had them, but I’ve read and heard anecdotally that Clos des Lambrays is often a bit of a miss.

valorized

What a great word

[David_Kubiak]

I would argue that the innate qualities of wines from the NSG terroir do not reach grand cru status no matter how impressive they are as examples of their vineyards.

[William_Kelley]

I would argue that the innate qualities of wines from the NSG terroir do not reach grand cru status no matter how impressive they are as examples of their vineyards.

I have had bottles of ‘30s Nuits from Thomas Bassot, 1940s Gouges, magical Chevillon old and young, Lalou’s Boudots, and even, frankly, some vintages of the Mugneret sisters’ Chaignots (try the 1999 blind next to DRC’s 1999 Echézeaux - not necessarily a foregone conclusion) that would call that assertion into question.

[Robert_Sand]

NO, if you compare it to the best (better?) 1er Crus North of LSG and the majority of the Grand Crus.
YES, if you compare it with some weak Grand Crus like some examples of Clos Vougeot, Echezeaux, Charmes-Chambertin et al

But imho LSG never showed the finesse and complexity of a real fine Grand Cru even when fully mature, which is only after 25+ years in a good vintage, it usually is a bit foursquare and lacking elegance.
(moreover I often prefer Vaucrains and Boudots)

[Robert_Sand]

Haven’t had them, but I’ve read and heard anecdotally that Clos des Lambrays is often a bit of a miss.

I could even call some vintages and Crus of DRC a bit of a miss …

[Howard_Cooper]

I would argue that the innate qualities of wines from the NSG terroir do not reach grand cru status no matter how impressive they are as examples of their vineyards.

I have had bottles of ‘30s Nuits from Thomas Bassot, 1940s Gouges, magical Chevillon old and young, Lalou’s Boudots, and even, frankly, some vintages of the Mugneret sisters’ Chaignots (try the 1999 blind next to DRC’s 1999 Echézeaux - not necessarily a foregone conclusion) that would call that assertion into question.

I love the wines from MG and have had their 1999 a few times and love it, but IMHO Chaignots is not even their best premier cru. I like their Feusselottes better I think every time I have had them side by side. In fact, there have been times when I have preferred their VR (although this is more a stylistic preference).

I admit, many if not most of the time I have had them side by side has been barrel samples when I have visited there but I also like their Feusselottes better generally (not side by side). That said, I will drink virtually any MG wine. They are a fabulous producer.

[William_Kelley]

IMHO Chaignots is not even their best premier cru.

I was trying to stay on topic, however!

[A_Songeur]

Well then Feusselottes Grand cru??.. then why not Ghislaine’s best 1er crus?..

[Howard_Cooper]

IMHO Chaignots is not even their best premier cru.

I was trying to stay on topic, however!

[Greg_K]

Well then Feusselottes Grand cru??.. then why not Ghislaine’s best 1er crus?..

I can’t agree with considering Barthod next to Mugnier and Roumier and thinking that’s what should elevate another Chambolle 1er cru to grand cru status.

This summer a few of us did a blind Roumier vs. Mugnier dinner. Someone brought a 2010 Barthod 1er as a ringer and we all called it as a disappointing bottle of Roumier

[billnanson]

NO, if you compare it to the best (better?) 1er Crus North of LSG and the majority of the Grand Crus.
YES, if you compare it with some weak Grand Crus like some examples of Clos Vougeot, Echezeaux, Charmes-Chambertin et al

But imho LSG never showed the finesse and complexity of a real fine Grand Cru even when fully mature, which is only after 25+ years in a good vintage, it usually is a bit foursquare and lacking elegance.
(moreover I often prefer Vaucrains and Boudots)

But then you are necessarily ignoring the weak examples of LSG too for your ‘YES’ comment, Robert…

[Robert_Sand]

NO, if you compare it to the best (better?) 1er Crus North of LSG and the majority of the Grand Crus.
YES, if you compare it with some weak Grand Crus like some examples of Clos Vougeot, Echezeaux, Charmes-Chambertin et al

But imho LSG never showed the finesse and complexity of a real fine Grand Cru even when fully mature, which is only after 25+ years in a good vintage, it usually is a bit foursquare and lacking elegance.
(moreover I often prefer Vaucrains and Boudots)

But then you are necessarily ignoring the weak examples of LSG too for your ‘YES’ comment, Robert…

Maybe it wasn´t clear that I was kind of sarcastic -
but the argument of weak Clos Vougeots and Echezeaux always comes up when discussing “new Grand crus” -

So: NO, NSG doesn´t need a Grand Cru !

[Charlie_Carnes]

I would argue that the innate qualities of wines from the NSG terroir do not reach grand cru status no matter how impressive they are as examples of their vineyards.

I have had bottles of ‘30s Nuits from Thomas Bassot, 1940s Gouges, magical Chevillon old and young, Lalou’s Boudots, and even, frankly, some vintages of the Mugneret sisters’ Chaignots (try the 1999 blind next to DRC’s 1999 Echézeaux - not necessarily a foregone conclusion) that would call that assertion into question.

Great call on the sisters’ Chaignots. That wine always does it for me!

As to the LSG becoming GC, it really doesn’t matter to me. After all, a rose by any other name…

[Charlie_Carnes]

Resting on the current classifications doesn’t really work in the case of Les St. Georges because it almost certainly would have been classified grand cru in the original classification on its merits. Henri Gouges didn’t let it get considered because he was the mayor of Nuits at the time and a major owner of the cru and apparently didn’t want the appearance of impropriety.

It’s clearly more of a grand cru than the lesser -Chambertins and Cortons.

Cool story!

[Gaudissabois_Johan]

Friends,

Clive Coates once said that there was no need for a new grand cru. And if lets SAINT GEORGES were to be elevated than what with CLOS-St_JACQUES, AMOUREUSES or, even more so, VOSNE CROS PARANTOUX made legendary by the late great Henri Jayer? But if LES SAINT-GEORGES is not elevated : is that not unfair to the village of Nuits?

SINCERELY JOHAN

[Howard_Cooper]

Resting on the current classifications doesn’t really work in the case of Les St. Georges because it almost certainly would have been classified grand cru in the original classification on its merits. Henri Gouges didn’t let it get considered because he was the mayor of Nuits at the time and a major owner of the cru and apparently didn’t want the appearance of impropriety.

It’s clearly more of a grand cru than the lesser -Chambertins and Cortons.

I read somewhere that it was more of, “I don’t want to pay the fee of getting this classified grand cru.”

Shouldn’t the word “fee” be changed to “taxes”?

[Howard_Cooper]

Friends,

Clive Coates once said that there was no need for a new grand cru. And if lets SAINT GEORGES were to be elevated than what with CLOS-St_JACQUES, AMOUREUSES or, even more so, VOSNE CROS PARANTOUX made legendary by the late great Henri Jayer? But if LES SAINT-GEORGES is not elevated : is that not unfair to the village of Nuits?

SINCERELY JOHAN

Fair to Nuits? Should we also have Grand Crus from Santenay and Savigny to be fair to them? This seems like the worst possible reason to change classifications.

[Gaudissabois_Johan]

dear Howard,

You did not understand me. Nuits solely has no grand cru because mayor GOUGES did not partcipate in the procedure at the time. -Otherwise LES SAINT GEORGES would have been grand cru. That is not he case in SANTENAY… PLEASE!!!
SINCERELY JOHAN

[MChang]

Well then Feusselottes Grand cru??.. then why not Ghislaine’s best 1er crus?..

I can’t agree with considering Barthod next to Mugnier and Roumier and thinking that’s what should elevate another Chambolle 1er cru to grand cru status.

This summer a few of us did a blind Roumier vs. Mugnier dinner. Someone brought a 2010 Barthod 1er as a ringer and we all called it as a disappointing bottle of Roumier

Yeah we all know you don’t care for barthod for whatever reason. I’ve done quite a few roumier and barthod cras blind head to heads and most ppl preferred the barthod version (most recently 09 and 13) but ymmv.

[Greg_K]

Well then Feusselottes Grand cru??.. then why not Ghislaine’s best 1er crus?..

I can’t agree with considering Barthod next to Mugnier and Roumier and thinking that’s what should elevate another Chambolle 1er cru to grand cru status.

This summer a few of us did a blind Roumier vs. Mugnier dinner. Someone brought a 2010 Barthod 1er as a ringer and we all called it as a disappointing bottle of Roumier

Yeah we all know you don’t care for barthod for whatever reason. I’ve done quite a few roumier and barthod cras blind head to heads and most ppl preferred the barthod version (most recently 09 and 13) but ymmv.

Thinking Barthod’s wines are significantly below Roumier’s in quality is not an unusual position; given where the market is, I’d say it’s very much in the majority.