J J Prum: the last great wine house priced reasonably.

[Robert_Dentice]

Just bought some 2019, and was amazed at the restraint on prices. All Auslese in the high fifties, the gold caps were just north of a hundred. And the wines are always excellent, often sublime.

Trying to think of another estate at the top of their peer group that is as well priced. The only other one I can think of is Beaucastel.

True but this could be said for so many German wines. How about Falkenstein. Their reference point genre defining Kabinett Trocken is $26. The Auslese is $41. These prices are post tariff for the 2019s after received crazy high scores from multiple publications. Only problem is that there is so little to go around and the secret is out.

Some retailers I’ve seen getting the Falkenstein wines are now charging more than even that. Party’s over!

Not much more. I just paid $27 for Herrenberg Kabi Trocken. Don’t forget that is with the tariff.

Given how much I love the wines it is the greatest deal in the wine world. I had a Roulot Perrieres the other night that was very weak and all I could think was that I could have purchased 4 cases of Falkenstein!

[Chris_Seiber]

I’m a fan, and I bought (for me, certainly nothing on the order Robert Dentice!) a lot of 2015s, mostly the Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett.

But I do sense that prices are rising in the last few years. Not sure if it’s tariffs, or maybe just that so few retailers have the 2019s yet, or if the prices are actually on the climb. It will be interesting to see what the prices are when the 2019s hit the shelves around here.

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

True but this could be said for so many German wines. How about Falkenstein. Their reference point genre defining Kabinett Trocken is $26. The Auslese is $41. These prices are post tariff for the 2019s after received crazy high scores from multiple publications. Only problem is that there is so little to go around and the secret is out.

Some retailers I’ve seen getting the Falkenstein wines are now charging more than even that. Party’s over!

Not much more. I just paid $27 for Herrenberg Kabi Trocken. Don’t forget that is with the tariff.

Given how much I love the wines it is the greatest deal in the wine world. I had a Roulot Perrieres the other night that was very weak and all I could think was that I could have purchased 4 cases of Falkenstein!

Maybe it was just the one or two retailers that were price gouging that I came across then.

[David_Bu3ker]

I’m a fan, and I bought (for me, certainly nothing on the order Robert Dentice!) a lot of 2015s, mostly the Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett.

But I do sense that prices are rising in the last few years. Not sure if it’s tariffs, or maybe just that so few retailers have the 2019s yet, or if the prices are actually on the climb. It will be interesting to see what the prices are when the 2019s hit the shelves around here.

Tariffs are a big bite. I’ve bought 10+ cases of 2019 Germans so far (slow year for me), and it’s ouch across the board. Of course the wines are still excellent values, just not the complete steal they were before they became stand-ins for Airbus.

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

I’m a fan, and I bought (for me, certainly nothing on the order Robert Dentice!) a lot of 2015s, mostly the Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett.

But I do sense that prices are rising in the last few years. Not sure if it’s tariffs, or maybe just that so few retailers have the 2019s yet, or if the prices are actually on the climb. It will be interesting to see what the prices are when the 2019s hit the shelves around here.

Tariffs are a big bite. I’ve bought 10+ cases of 2019 Germans so far (slow year for me), and it’s ouch across the board. Of course the wines are still excellent values, just not the complete steal they were before they became stand-ins for Airbus.

What does a “normal” year look like for you?

I think I have about 8 cases waiting to come in and I thought that was a lot.

[David_Bu3ker]

Let’s put it this way, in the last 22 vintages I have bought a low of 6 cases and a high of 64.

[Howard_Cooper]

There are a boatload of great German wine producers with very long track records with wines that are reasonably priced. Unless a wine is Egon Mueller; very, very sweet or a GG, it is probably pretty well priced. I love the wines of JJ Prum (the two producers I have the most wines from in my cellar are Prum and Truchot). But, I cannot say that these wines are any better than those of von Schubert (Maximin Grunhaus) or Zilliken, for example. I also love the wines from Schloss Lieser.

[Howard_Cooper]

I’m a fan, and I bought (for me, certainly nothing on the order Robert Dentice!) a lot of 2015s, mostly the Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett.

But I do sense that prices are rising in the last few years. Not sure if it’s tariffs, or maybe just that so few retailers have the 2019s yet, or if the prices are actually on the climb. It will be interesting to see what the prices are when the 2019s hit the shelves around here.

Tariffs are a big bite. I’ve bought 10+ cases of 2019 Germans so far (slow year for me), and it’s ouch across the board. Of course the wines are still excellent values, just not the complete steal they were before they became stand-ins for Airbus.

What does a “normal” year look like for you?

I think I have about 8 cases waiting to come in and I thought that was a lot.

Wow. I received my first offering of 2019 German wines this week and it was just from one producer - Falkenstein. Got an assorted case, but I am way behind you guys. Have you seen wines in the US from Zilliken or Schloss Lieser?

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

Tariffs are a big bite. I’ve bought 10+ cases of 2019 Germans so far (slow year for me), and it’s ouch across the board. Of course the wines are still excellent values, just not the complete steal they were before they became stand-ins for Airbus.

What does a “normal” year look like for you?

I think I have about 8 cases waiting to come in and I thought that was a lot.

Wow. I received my first offering of 2019 German wines this week and it was just from one producer - Falkenstein. Got an assorted case, but I am way behind you guys. Have you seen wines in the US from Zilliken or Schloss Lieser?

No. Panzer told me he isn’t getting Zilliken anymore since they’re being imported by Loosen Bros. now. Haven’t seen Schloss Lieser anywhere.

I’ve ordered Max Ferd Richter, Falkenstein, JJ Prum, Willi Schaefer (awaiting confirmation), and Vollenweider (awaiting confirmation).

[David_Bu3ker]

Lieser is now with Skurnik.

[Rob_S1]

Where is the best place to get Prum through?

[Jay_Miller]

Where is the best place to get Prum through?

I don’t know if it’s best but winecellarage has a bunch now.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Where is the best place to get Prum through?

I don’t know if it’s best but winecellarage has a bunch now.

That is where I got mine.

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

I am surprised on how the discourse on LdH evolved. I agreed with the original inclusion of LdH on the list, and given that I have 2007 LdH 375s to be shipped once it cooled down, it was a sad report.

Anyone hve a different (i.e., postive) experience with LdH Tondonia 2007 - Cellartracker has a few strong reviews but inconsistent overall.

[Jay_Miller]

Where is the best place to get Prum through?

I don’t know if it’s best but winecellarage has a bunch now.

That is where I got mine.

I had a bunch of 2019 JJP in my cart but bought some Alzinger Gruner and a half case of 2007 JJP WS Kabinett instead.

[DanielP]

Tariffs have been a real killer on the Falkensteins, which I think are up the full tariff percentage from the previous year’s retail prices.

JJ Prum pricing for whatever reason is most congruous with pricing in Germany. I can’t say I’d be a huge buyer if those pricing differences existed here in the US. There’s a lot of producers that I like as much as Prum, but older Prum convince me to continue buying. Hopefully they have been maintaining their same age worthiness.

Also count me as another not-afan of the 07 Tondonia. 06 was really fantastic though

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

Tariffs have been a real killer on the Falkensteins, which I think are up the full tariff percentage from the previous year’s retail prices.

JJ Prum pricing for whatever reason is most congruous with pricing in Germany. I can’t say I’d be a huge buyer if those pricing differences existed here in the US. There’s a lot of producers that I like as much as Prum, but older Prum convince me to continue buying. Hopefully they have been maintaining their same age worthiness.

Also count me as another not-afan of the 07 Tondonia. 06 was really fantastic though

From what Rob Panzer and others have told me, winemaking style is unchanged at JJ Prum since Katharina took over. How climate change may affect their longevity may be the bigger question.

[Cris_Whetstone]

I am surprised on how the discourse on LdH evolved. I agreed with the original inclusion of LdH on the list, and given that I have 2007 LdH 375s to be shipped once it cooled down, it was a sad report.

Anyone hve a different (i.e., postive) experience with LdH Tondonia 2007 - Cellartracker has a few strong reviews but inconsistent overall.

Personally, I thought it was a big step up from the '06. I wasn’t super impressed with the '06 but I only tried it once. I think the '07 is a better cellar candidate.

[Jayson_Cohen]

I am surprised on how the discourse on LdH evolved. I agreed with the original inclusion of LdH on the list, and given that I have 2007 LdH 375s to be shipped once it cooled down, it was a sad report.

Anyone hve a different (i.e., postive) experience with LdH Tondonia 2007 - Cellartracker has a few strong reviews but inconsistent overall.

Personally, I thought it was a big step up from the '06. I wasn’t super impressed with the '06 but I only tried it once. I think the '07 is a better cellar candidate.

Now I really have to get one. I thought ‘06 Tondonia was quite good the couple times I’ve had it although not as good as ‘04, and just in the last 2 weeks I found ‘06 Bosconia had a clear step on ‘07 (with the newly arrived ‘08 on deck to try this week).

[Howard_Cooper]

What does a “normal” year look like for you?

I think I have about 8 cases waiting to come in and I thought that was a lot.

Wow. I received my first offering of 2019 German wines this week and it was just from one producer - Falkenstein. Got an assorted case, but I am way behind you guys. Have you seen wines in the US from Zilliken or Schloss Lieser?

No. Panzer told me he isn’t getting Zilliken anymore since they’re being imported by Loosen Bros. now. Haven’t seen Schloss Lieser anywhere.

I’ve ordered Max Ferd Richter, Falkenstein, JJ Prum, Willi Schaefer (awaiting confirmation), and Vollenweider (awaiting confirmation).

Since Schloss Lieser is now imported by Skurnik Schloss Lieser - Skurnik Wines & Spirits I would think they would be easier to find. Distribution in this country of German wines has really gotten messed up the last couple of years.