just a comment about Bordeaux value, and children future value

[John_Telford]

All very helpful, I was not so much trying to drive to “give me a list”, I was just driving to what a joy to be young…buy a wine…and 20 years latter be able to say what a joy. Outside of trophy wines. This is what it is all about!

I’m 28 and can’t really afford trophy wines except once in a while, so this is what I do!

Good for you. Again, I get more joy from these then most trophy wines.

[John_Telford]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

Sadly, Siran flipped to the dark-side as well. The 2015 was touted on BWE but I found it much too glossy.

The 2016 Chasse Spleen is a deal. Snag it up.

Robert interesting your comment about Chasse Spleen 16 (I don’t doubt you), however I had one of those very shortly after release and I remember thinking it was one big wine (which of course does not in and of itself mean much but it certainly has lots of stuffing).

[Craig_G]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

Sadly, Siran flipped to the dark-side as well. The 2015 was touted on BWE but I found it much too glossy.

The 2016 Chasse Spleen is a deal. Snag it up.

Robert interesting your comment about Chasse Spleen 16 (I don’t doubt you), however I had one of those very shortly after release and I remember thinking it was one big wine (which of course does not in and of itself mean much but it certainly has lots of stuffing).

God forbid it should turn into a monstrosity like, say, 1989 Lynch Bages.

[Ron_Slye]

I am in general agreement with the OP as well. I have some 2000 Sociando which is just coming into its own. Same with Haut Bailly. The other one that no one has mentioned is Cantemerle – though when I tried the 2016 at a big Bdx tasting I was less impressed. But the 2000 is a rock solid lovely wine.

My sense is that Bordeaux (and yes, Spain, Italy, Germany, and perhaps many other places) have some gems in the sub-$30 category that will develop into amazing wines. I think that used to be the case in the US, but not sure it is anymore (I am not saying they are not out there – in fact some BD wines might fit this bill – but there are fewer than there used to be).

[Robert.A.Jr]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

Sadly, Siran flipped to the dark-side as well. The 2015 was touted on BWE but I found it much too glossy.

The 2016 Chasse Spleen is a deal. Snag it up.

Robert interesting your comment about Chasse Spleen 16 (I don’t doubt you), however I had one of those very shortly after release and I remember thinking it was one big wine (which of course does not in and of itself mean much but it certainly has lots of stuffing).

Here is Leve’s 88-point rating:

Quite bright, this medium/full bodied, fresh, sharp, crisp, cassis and cranberry filled wine is made for lovers of older, classically styled Bordeaux. The wine leans to the cedar, tobacco leaf and piquant red fruit oriented side of the style range.
Read more at:> Learn about Chasse Spleen Haut Medoc Moulis, Complete Guide

Sounds delish, no?. Add 2-3 points for an Alfert scoring here.

[Greg_K]

I’m confused by the title of this thread. Is it about trading future children for mature Bordeaux? Future value of children is hard to know!

[Robert.A.Jr]

I’m confused by the title of this thread. Is it about trading future children for mature Bordeaux? Future value of children is hard to know!

You can have my kid, but he is no QPR

[Jeff_Leve]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

I do not agree with you at all. Those are just your list of old names you are already familiar with. I was shocked by how many delicious under $30 Left Bank wines I tasted from 2018.

You only need to be more adventurous and try new wines. Look at my articles on in-bottle 2018 Haut Medoc and Medoc wines on my site.

[Greg_K]

I’m confused by the title of this thread. Is it about trading future children for mature Bordeaux? Future value of children is hard to know!

You can have my kid, but he is no QPR

Tough vintage, I hear.

[Thomas_Keim]

This may or may not be helpful/interesting to Beserkers…but I just am finishing a Lanessan 2001. To be fair it is slightly pass prime, although still has beautiful cassis and fruit. Maybe a bit thin, but omg what a pleasure. I love great Bordeaux, and have many the trophy wines…but where does one find joy in a properly aged mid-range Bordeaux. I have a cellar full of great California and bordeaux, will it ever bring me the joy of this wine i bought for $14 on release…I think doubtful. I am wondering what bottles my children will buy that in 20 years will bring them such joy, outside trophy wines, which they are unlikely to buy currently. What wine will they look back and say…wow what a joy. What a gift to be able to find such a value in the cellar.

Always a big part of my cellar are the little guys; Bordeaux Petite Chateaux. They just have shorter drinking windows for the most part, but they are FAR AND AWAY the greatest wine bargains in the world. I have a ten year rule for the most part (especially the Right Bank Satellites). Popped a 2009 Latour de By last Saturday that was damn near perfect. Running into some really good second labels from the bigger appellations over the last few years that can be a bit spendier - I am just loving the 2015 Fleur de Pedesclaux from Pauillac right now - from a notorious underacheiving chateaux that’s really coming back.

[Brian_Be]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

As someone just getting into wine, Bordeaux, and cellaring I feel like 2019 was a great year to buy ~$30 wines. Again, maybe my taste is trash, but I bought 2018 Haut-Brisson, 2016 and 2019 Chateau Laroque, 2019 Chateau Pedesclaux, and 2018/2018 Chateau Tour Saint-Christophe. To be honest, I’m not expecting greatness from them, but I suspect that in 10+ years I’ll have quite a few drinkable wines that I won’t feel like I need a special occasion to open…

[Mark_Golodetz]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

I do not agree with you at all. Those are just your list of old names you are already familiar with. I was shocked by how many delicious under $30 Left Bank wines I tasted from 2018.

You only need to be more adventurous and try new wines. Look at my articles on in-bottle 2018 Haut Medoc and Medoc wines on my site.

I appreciate the offer, but based on our different palates, I think I might be better off discovering the wines you don’t like

[Mark_Golodetz]

I’m confused by the title of this thread. Is it about trading future children for mature Bordeaux? Future value of children is hard to know!

You can have my kid, but he is no QPR

It’s like the $1 million house on a $300k block. Too many sunk costs, you will never get your money back.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Chateau Lamarque is a solid recommendation. I thought the 2016 was an excellent, 90-point wine. This is a wine where my tastes merged with Jeffois. I’m grabbing the 2018 as well. Under $25.

[Max_S1]

Are any of these values found in Pomerol?

[Robert.A.Jr]

Are any of these values found in Pomerol?

Yes.

Chateau Taillefer.

[Thomas_Keim]

Are any of these values found in Pomerol?

Yes.

Chateau Taillefer.

And don’t forget Lalande de Pomerol - Lots of great values there. Chateau Lafleur Vauzelle is a pretty dense, rich wine for the appellation - not quite the bargains the Saint Emilion Satellites are, but worth every penny.

[Jeff_Leve]

The number of sub $30 Bordeaux with aging potential has basically been disappearing, although there are a few minor exceptions left. Greysac, Loudenne, Siran, Chasse Spleen, Potensac, Poujeaux and Lanessan although the latter three are making modern wines. There are plenty of lower quality wines being made but not being imported.

I do not agree with you at all. Those are just your list of old names you are already familiar with. I was shocked by how many delicious under $30 Left Bank wines I tasted from 2018.

You only need to be more adventurous and try new wines. Look at my articles on in-bottle 2018 Haut Medoc and Medoc wines on my site.

I appreciate the offer, but based on our different palates, I think I might be better off discovering the wines you don’t like

Mark… Even your stodgy old fart palate, along with Alfred’s 19th century tastes would line a lot of the Medoc and Haut Medoc wines.

They might be new names to you and others, but they’ve been around for ages, though I suspect they’ve upped their game over the past 5-6 years.

[Mark_Golodetz]

This old palate made a point of tasting Cru Bourgeois and others when I was in Bordeaux. The wines I mentioned were stand outs; and I was happy to buy them for everyday drinking and cellar a good percentage. Evenafter twenty years, still found them really enjoyable, although a few had died early.

The fact that you like these wines and score them relatively well, makes no difference. We have totally different tastes and we tend not to like the same wines. The traditional wines that were barely ripe but very appealing and often ageworthy is the very antithesis of your palate. I do remember comparing Magdelaine 1998 and Pavie 1999 in person. I still find it remarkable how much you disliked the Magdelaine, which is only fair, as I loathed the Pavie.

In fact, my last few trips to Bordeaux were disappointing, as the honest wines I had liked such as Poujeaux and Lanessan were clearly changing, so while I am happy to taste your recommended wines, I seriously doubt that they will give me much pleasure.

[Robert.A.Jr]

In fact, my last few trips to Bordeaux were disappointing, as the honest wines I had liked such as Poujeaux and Lanessan were clearly changing, so while I am happy to taste your recommended wines, I seriously doubt that they will give me much pleasure.

And a damn shame to see these classic stalwarts change. Along with so many others.