Knowledge Picking: How Long Can Fortified Unoaked Muscats and Muscadel(le)s Age?

WINE TALK
1

Hey Berserkers,

It’s been a while but it’s time once again to pick your more experienced brains. Can anyone share with me the ageability and drinking windows of lightly fortified Muscat and Muscadel(le) wines from around the world?

I am particularly looking for how long, if at all, the following types of wines can or should be held:

  • French Muscat Beaumes de Venise from the 09 and 10 vintages (i.e. Domaine des Bernardins, Vidal-Fleury, etc.)
  • South African Muscadel(le)s from the 04 vintage (i.e. Rietvallei)
  • California Orange and Black Muscat from the 10 Vintage (i.e. Quady)
  • Portuguese Moscatel de Setubal from the 07 and 08 vintages (i.e. Jose Maria da Fonseca, Sivipa)
  • Spanish fortified oaked Muscat (i.e. Torres Floralis)
  • Ukrainian fortified oaked Muscat from the 08 vintage (i.e. Massandra)



    THe LCBO currently has a number of 09 Beaumes de Venise I’m looking at and just one new 10 release I’m eyeing. THe SAQ carries Rietvallei’s Robertson 1908 Red Muscadel which intrigues me but it is their 04 vintage they carry, not the newest 08 vintage. I’m wondering if I should even buy that at all to begin with.

The others I’ve listed are already in my sweet possession. Your thoughts and superior knowledge on this matter would be much appreciated. Thanks. [cheers.gif]

2

Beaumes de Venise should be drunk young (i.e. first 1-2 years) as all the enjoyability lies in the fresh fruit aromas and flavors.

I can’t speak to these other specific examples, but if it’s helpful, Australian liqueur muscats and muscadelles are thought to ‘not change’ in bottle – that is to say, they don’t rapidly get worse, as the sugar and brandy is an effective preservative, but nor do they much repay cellaring by improving.

3

What Tom said. Not for aging.

4

Moscatel de Setubal not only can age, it SHOULD be aged, and lasts forever. I’ve had very old, fabulous versions.

Massandra also is a very, very longlived wine.

5

These wines age in cask. When bottled, change occurs at a glacial rate and sometimes not for the better.

6

They also age in bottle, and as often “for the better” as any other white wine. I once had a fabulous old bottle of MdS, and the CT reviews for old bottles of Massandra (I’ve only had some of the surprisingly excellent newer bottlings) are rapturous. YMMV, but people have been drinking bottle-aged Massandra for generations.

EDIT: To add that I did some googling, and it seems the famous Massandra Collection wines are bottle, not cask aged.

7

Recently had a Massandra White Muscat 1938 that was most vigorous. I would guess that it could go at least 50 more years. No idea about current wine making in Crimea. Beaumes de Venise is a different animal, find them rather bland.

8

Fortified wines can be either bottle aged or wood aged. Bottle aged requires considerable concentration initially since there won’t be anymore in bottle. There is minimal oxidation. Vintage and crusted Ports are the prototype, although Vintage White Ports are not allowed for. Wood aged ones concentrate in the cask. They stay fresh in the cask as well, maintaining acidity and continue to oxidize slowly. After bottling, there is no further concentration. They can lose freshness. There is great debate on whether or not wood aged wine improve in bottle. There is no doubt they will change, but improvement is another question. Some producers such as Niepoort think their Colheita Ports do improve. The winemaker at Kopke, famous for their Colheitas, states that only those wood aged wine which are not fined nor filtered will improve. Mannie Berk, of the Rare Wine Company and the greatest mind on Madiera in the States, differentiates between Madiera (white wine!) which has spent most of it’s lifetime in cask or bottle. In cask, the wine becomes richer, sweeter, and maintains freshness. Those spending dozens of years in bottle become more delicate. Sometimes they get ethreal, sometimes tired. Bottle stink can be a problem. I’ve had vintage Madeira which spent 50+ years in cask and 100+ in bottle. I’ve had others 150+ in cask and only a few in bottle. There definitely is a difference between the two; but most people, I think, would prefer the fully cask aged ones. I have some JM Fonseca Setubal 25 years in cask bottled in 1978. While still a nice wine, it probably would have been better some time ago. It is getting tired. I also have some of the Quady’s Orange and Black Muscats 20+ years old. Need to try them again sometime. That said, holding these wines that Tran mentioned for 5-10 years probably won’t make them suffer too much. Sorry for rambling on, I’m sorta in a stream of consciousness mode drinking Warres Warrior.

9

Word. We open a lot of old wine at work, but the 1936 White Muscat Massandra we opened a few years ago was absolutely stunning - not to mention the oldest…