Lady winery owners / collectors

[Chris_Seiber]

Hi Kathryn

Drinker/learner/collector here, and as you can tell by my number of posts, mostly lurker!

In real life, there seem to be many female wine geeks and their tastes and interests very similar to men. It always surprises me that this board can be so male oriented, or when people assume someone is male even when they are only using their initials.

Thanks for posting, I suspect there are many of us here eating popcorn and watching the show.

I for some reason (not actually sure what the reason is) would have guessed that online message boards, as distinguished from social media like Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest, tend to skew heavily male, and I just found this article which seems to confirm it.

Men catch up with women on overall social media use

Online women are also more likely than online men to use Facebook and Instagram. Some 77% of online women are Facebook users, compared with two-thirds of online men. Instagram use follows a similar pattern, with online women being more inclined to use the picture-sharing site than men (31% vs. 24%).

On the other hand, online discussion forums are especially popular among men. One-in-five male internet users say they read or comment on sites such as Reddit, Digg or Slashdot, compared with only 11% of online women. A Pew Research survey from 2013 that only asked internet users about their Reddit use shows a similar division by gender.

It was from 2015, but I would guess that hasn’t changed too much. I personally follow that pattern – I participate in a few online message boards, this being the only one that isn’t behind a paywall or invite-only, but don’t have any social media accounts at all and never have.

Of course, the composition would vary a lot by subject matter, but I agree that there doesn’t seem like any reason we wouldn’t have more lady WBers or that the ones we have wouldn’t be more active. It would be great if it happened.

[Howard_Cooper]

I’m not sure I can claim to be a “lady,” but I am one of the female collectors/drinkers here. There aren’t that many of us.

It’s great to see the growing number of female wine professionals, but I do I wish there were more collectors. I’m often the only woman at auctions bidding for my own account. And I definitely wish more women would participate here, if for no other reason than to balance out the number of comments about wives not “getting” the wine habit.

Anyway - welcome to the community. And good luck!

Sarah, do you or the other women here, see major differences in the types of wines you like and drink (or how you approach wine) from what the men on this board prefer? Certainly, this is a hard question because the tastes on this board differ so widely. My sense is that while there are distinct differences between what you like and what I like (for example, we both like German wines a lot but you like the dry ones much more than I do), you and I probably have more similar palates than I do compared with some of the bigger is better wine drinkers here. I have not noticed preferences differing by gender, although I might be just blind to that. So, I am asking.

Howard - no, I don’t see any real difference between what female collectors (myself included) as a group like, or how they approach wine, and what male collectors like. Same thing with the few other female collectors with whom I am friends. At home, too, Jonathan’s tastes and mine are very, very similar, and where they differ doesn’t conform to any typical male/female category. As I see it, we are wine lovers first and foremost, and any differences are individual taste driven, as you say, rather than male versus female preferences.

That said, I do see stereotypes of what women like to drink born out in the real world as well as here when men here talk about what their wives like to drink. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all wives, but seems to be true often enough to reinforce the stereotype.

Sarah, unlike with your situation, I am clearly the collector and Nancy is not. She likes wine a lot, but is very happy to let me be the one buying it. But, just like with you and Jonathan, Nancy and I like a lot of the same wines and where our preferences differ we almost flip the stereotypical male/female category. I am the one who likes dry WHITE wine more (esp. white Burgundy and Champagne), while stereotypes are that women like white wines more. And, with respect to German wines, while we both really like Kabinetts and Spatlesen, I like the higher pradikat (sweeter) wines a lot more than she does. Also, Nancy likes bigger reds more than I do (or at least is more tolerant of them than I am) although for both of us our favorite reds are Burgundies in general and Truchot in specific. Interestingly, Nancy seems to like a lot more wineries we have visited. I do too, but for her it really seems like the personal connection made influences her perceptions of the wines. My guess is we all are influenced by visits (certainly I am) but she is even more influenced than most people I have seen.

[Chris_Seiber]

Interestingly, Nancy seems to like a lot more wineries we have visited. I do too, but for her it really seems like the personal connection made influences her perceptions of the wines. My guess is we all are influenced by visits (certainly I am) but she is even more influenced than most people I have seen.

Definitely true for my wife, as well. To a smaller extent, she also tends to like wines she can associate with a particular occasion or moment – like “this is the Brunello we had while we ate lunch on the patio at Boccon Divino.”

[K.C0LBURN]

Hello! I am a long-time lurker and short-time poster. Collector and not ITB, though regularly mistaken for someone who is. I would LOVE to meet and hang out with more female wine collectors and professionals, if anything to learn more from the folks who have day jobs and see more of the business side and nuances than I do.

Lovely to be here and to see the activity on this thread! Some of my favorite surprise discoveries and experiences have come from seeking out and visiting wineries and winemakers who have been mentioned on this board.

Even just reading this board has been an education, but everything I know about wine has come from regularly visiting different California AVAs, talking to winemakers and other wine professionals, getting more in-person recommendations for other places to try on each of those trips, and just keeping that up for the last eight years or so while my tastes evolved.

I’ve had the distinct pleasure of falling even more in love with some of the wines I first tasted in 2012 (2008-2010 vintages) on my very first trip to Napa and Sonoma.

---

Regarding the question above about female vs. male drinking preferences: I haven’t noticed a difference, except maybe in where people start? But even then, I’m as likely to recommend a Moscato d’Asti or an ice wine to male as to female novices. Both of these, as well as ciders, have served me well as introductions for younger friends who are very new to wine and spirits in general. My first “aha” wine was a Sokol-Blosser Evolution white blend … a long, long time ago.

Tasting a more varied varietal blend was a revelation after well-meaning friends had been serving me cloyingly sweet Riesling … which, these days, I know does not align at all with what I like. At the time I thought that was how “wine” was supposed to taste! And was relieved to find that very much not the case. That wine was actually a world with options, where you could even figure out what you’d probably like and then go track it down in person!

In my experience introducing newcomers to wine and spirits (many of them friends), people are more likely to align based on overall taste and palate preferences, no matter their gender expression. Socialization can absolutely play a role in what kinds of wines people elect to try or what they are offered. When I ask someone “what kinds of flavors do you like?” I take it on faith that they are telling me the truth!

My male family members and partners in crime when it comes to tasting prefer fruitier wines than I do. One of them cannot taste the blue fruit ranges typical of Petite Sirah and Cabernet Franc at all and even has problems with certain Grenache! He more or less has to drink wines with a strong red top-note or mid-note to taste them. If any wine is in the ‘lower’ or blue-fruit range, he gets nothing but acidity and tannin and the fruit completely disappears for him.

This weird limitation of palate range alerted me to the fact that some people can’t taste certain areas, notes, or elements of wine at all. The flourishes in that area are lost on them. It’s gotten to the point where if I taste a lot of fruit in a very specific area of the mouth and with a very specific texture? I know he’s going to hate it before he even tries a sip, no matter how excellent it is… can’t appreciate what you can’t taste.

Meanwhile, I have a palate broad enough to taste and appreciate most everything that is at least well-made, no matter the varietal character of the fruit. My high tolerance for bitter flavors, in particular, is odd enough that it’s not shared by anyone else in my immediate family or usually in my immediate drinking circle. I very much appreciate fine local craft amari and herbal liqueurs, craft cocktails, and craft beer in addition to wine.

I’m the classic kind of: ‘will drink anything as long as it’s good.’

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Interestingly, Nancy seems to like a lot more wineries we have visited. I do too, but for her it really seems like the personal connection made influences her perceptions of the wines. My guess is we all are influenced by visits (certainly I am) but she is even more influenced than most people I have seen.

Definitely true for my wife, as well. To a smaller extent, she also tends to like wines she can associate with a particular occasion or moment – like “this is the Brunello we had while we ate lunch on the patio at Boccon Divino.”

It’s the opposite in our house. Jonathan is highly influenced by his feelings about the wineries he has visited, or worked a harvest, or when he previously had a wine. I am an unsentimental person in general, and barely feel the allure of birth year wines. Heck, I don’t even keep photos of loved ones in the house! I do, however, find it easier to recall what I thought of a wine if I associate where and when we had it.

The real difference between us, which I can’t fit into a gender related stereotype in any way, is that he is absolutely set in his favorite wines and producers, and is fine buying those exclusively. He almost never wants to try something new when there’s an option he knows he likes. I am more open to limited exploration.

There is still a great deal of assumption of ignorance when it comes to women and wine, despite the rising number of female professionals. By this I mean that it’s often assumed a woman does not know anything about wine, or that the man in a hetero couple will be the one who knows about wine, if either does. Some places are, of course, equally patronizing to either sex. We have tested this attitude in restaurants and shops etc. all over the world and have found it to be pretty consistently true. I have even had tastes of it here and there on this board, though fewer since I’ve gotten more vocal.

[Chris_Seiber]

Great stuff as usual, Sarah. I’m really enjoying this thread - I hope it continues and more voices join in.

[Will_Clements]

Sarah, do you or the other women here, see major differences in the types of wines you like and drink (or how you approach wine) from what the men on this board prefer? Certainly, this is a hard question because the tastes on this board differ so widely. My sense is that while there are distinct differences between what you like and what I like (for example, we both like German wines a lot but you like the dry ones much more than I do), you and I probably have more similar palates than I do compared with some of the bigger is better wine drinkers here. I have not noticed preferences differing by gender, although I might be just blind to that. So, I am asking.

Howard - no, I don’t see any real difference between what female collectors (myself included) as a group like, or how they approach wine, and what male collectors like. Same thing with the few other female collectors with whom I am friends. At home, too, Jonathan’s tastes and mine are very, very similar, and where they differ doesn’t conform to any typical male/female category. As I see it, we are wine lovers first and foremost, and any differences are individual taste driven, as you say, rather than male versus female preferences.

That said, I do see stereotypes of what women like to drink born out in the real world as well as here when men here talk about what their wives like to drink. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all wives, but seems to be true often enough to reinforce the stereotype.

Sarah, unlike with your situation, I am clearly the collector and Nancy is not. She likes wine a lot, but is very happy to let me be the one buying it. But, just like with you and Jonathan, Nancy and I like a lot of the same wines and where our preferences differ we almost flip the stereotypical male/female category. I am the one who likes dry WHITE wine more (esp. white Burgundy and Champagne), while stereotypes are that women like white wines more. And, with respect to German wines, while we both really like Kabinetts and Spatlesen, I like the higher pradikat (sweeter) wines a lot more than she does. Also, Nancy likes bigger reds more than I do (or at least is more tolerant of them than I am) although for both of us our favorite reds are Burgundies in general and Truchot in specific. Interestingly, Nancy seems to like a lot more wineries we have visited. I do too, but for her it really seems like the personal connection made influences her perceptions of the wines. My guess is we all are influenced by visits (certainly I am) but she is even more influenced than most people I have seen.

I am totally in your camp Howard.
I love dry whites and Emily pretty much won’t drink them. I have to cajole her to drink one usually.
She loves the over the top reds and won’t touch a Sauternes or sweeter Riesling.
She will drink port.

[Erin_Di_Costanzo]

Hi Kathryn, nice to meet you ~ winery owner, former retailer/sommelier and consumer here. Very glad to say hello!

And might I add a pure joy to do business with.

Thanks Brian! Will be great to see you soon.

[Sarah_S]

Definitely not ITB, and would say my knowledge base lacks depth…went to Cal in the early 90’s when Napa was a cheap date (you could walk into Caymus and there was a dog lying on the floor in the tasting room; $2 got you a taste of all of their wines, and you walked out with a glass.) Mondavi reserve was $15 or so a bottle at the Richmond (CA) Costco and Opus was a whopping $45 at the same Costco. My taste then was big red-no white. My taste has evolved, but I think I’m still influenced by those early college years. My go-to wine for a special occasion is a SQN grenache with 10+ years on it, for a “medium occasion” a mid-90’s kathryn kennedy, maybe an older dumol pinot (I had a 2006 Aidan two years ago that knocked my socks off.) The only lists I am on are Andremily and Ceritas. I’m particularly fond of Ceritas chardonnay, and Liquid Farm is pretty awesome as well, so I have outgrown the “no white wine” rule. (To be fair, my mother was a huge fan of Rombauer Chardonnay, and that scarred me for quite some time!) Thanks to this board I’ve become a fan of Tercero and the aforementioned Liquid Farm. When I find something new that I love I am super excited and I want to share it with everyone. I gave a bottle of prized 2017 Andremily Rosé to a sommelier because I knew he would find it fascinating. That’s just kind of how I am. So, if there are any women on this board in the DC area (I have since left CA,) who would like to come and share wine in a socially distanced, outdoor space, hit me up. I can’t claim to be any sort of authority, however, I do know what I enjoy and do not lack enthusiasm!

[Robert_Dentice]

Welcome! Great thread.

[Siun_O_Connell]

Nice to see this discussion grow … and to see more of us ladies - even if like Sarah K, we’re not all so ladylike (particularly when hanging out in the Politics hideaway). Not sure I count as a collector since my collection is just a few years old and not so deep. I’ve learned so much from discussions here and have a nice supply of all American wines … spent several years mostly drinking Mourvèdre and some good Rose, now rediscovering how much I have loved Rieslings. Like Sarah S, I am a big Tercero fan and (when not restraining myself thanks to covid layoff) I look forward to my allocations of Dirty & Rowdy, Cruse, Bedrock, Once & Future, Fine Disregard and Desire Lines and treasure my two remaining bottles of Merrill’s delicious wine and my remaining Berserkers Cuvée!

[Karen_Troisi]

Nice to meet you Kathryn,

ITB - small winery and we mostly produce cab. I wish I had more time to post and when I do it’s mostly about sports. Once was a collector and no surprise our cellar over the years became domestic cabernet dominant, with a sprinkling of pinot noir from various producers. Cheers! Karen

[Nola_Palomar]

Me too Kathryn, nice to meet you. And a hardy welcome to WB’s.
I’m a winery owner, Dominio Buenavista in a little remote village in the Alpujarra of Granada, Spain. We produce in the range of about 80,000 bottles/yr. I’m also a wine and gourmet importer. I produce an olive oil specific to our region called Lechin de Granada.
My estate has 55 acres in vineyards growing Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Tempranillo, Merlot, Graciano, Garnacha, Chardonnay, Viognier and Vijiriega. Everything is estate produced, aged and bottled in my winery.

[scamhi]

Collector and drinker here.

[Howard_Cooper]

we’re not all so ladylike (particularly when hanging out in the Politics hideaway).

You and I do not always agree on the Politics board but unlike some other people I cannot ever remember you posting something offensive or “unladylike”, whatever that mean.

[AstridKG]

Another mostly lurker here. I am a wine enthusiast (collector would be inaccurate) and have learned a lot from this board. Despite many attempts to broaden my palate, 70% or more of the wines I drink are French. When I venture out of the comfort zone with French reds, more often than not, my husband ends up drinking the rest… Whites have been easier for me. It’s a bit disappointing that I haven’t been able to expand my taste, but c’est la vie.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Another mostly lurker here. I am a wine enthusiast (collector would be inaccurate) and have learned a lot from this board. Despite many attempts to broaden my palate, 70% or more of the wines I drink are French. When I venture out of the comfort zone with French reds, more often than not, my husband ends up drinking the rest… Whites have been easier for me. It’s a bit disappointing that I haven’t been able to expand my taste, but c’est la vie.

There’s no shame at all in knowing what you like and drinking within that realm. I haven’t bought a bottle of new world wine, red or white, in many, many years, and feel just fine about it.

Welcome to the board!

[Diane_Kessler]

I am a long time collector/drinker and the person in charge of our wine collection. It is rare that there is not a bottle of wine on the dinner table, and I am the one who prepares dinner and selects the wine. I am the one who wants to read about it, talk about it, and continue to collect it (although someone should put a stop to that). Almost all of my wine friends are male. I did have a small female tasting group, but after a few years, we went our separate ways. There have been so many challenges and disappointments during this time of COVID, but wine has provided us with the unique pleasure that only wine seems to deliver.

[Siun_O_Connell]

we’re not all so ladylike (particularly when hanging out in the Politics hideaway).

You and I do not always agree on the Politics board but unlike some other people I cannot ever remember you posting something offensive or “unladylike”, whatever that mean.

Howard … thank you!

[alan_weinberg]

Another mostly lurker here. I am a wine enthusiast (collector would be inaccurate) and have learned a lot from this board. Despite many attempts to broaden my palate, 70% or more of the wines I drink are French. When I venture out of the comfort zone with French reds, more often than not, my husband ends up drinking the rest… Whites have been easier for me. It’s a bit disappointing that I haven’t been able to expand my taste, but c’est la vie.

if you stick to French wines, that’s still a huge world of wine!