Latest Horsepower release doesnt seem that popular

[Jared_Wagner]

@Markus S

@S. Stevenson

@Kirk.Grant

To me, it seems be a reflection of a few things:
Wines are priced at the point where they are no longer “easy flips”; that seems to be an effort to exclude those looking to make a quick buck from being on the buying list.
Wines are above or just below a point where they are in the same realm of long-standing classic producers from France so some will not spend their money.

I’ve noticed that too. As an example, SQN’s price on auction is similar to winery direct prices(with the exception of 100 EBA ones which still flip for double). We all know about Harlan. Yes, it seems like flipping is becoming a thing of the past which will mean waiting lists will shrink(if not disappear) and the ‘I want what I can’t have’ buying impulse will disappear as well. Will the wine pricing model bubble then burst? If I were a winery I’d be getting nervous right about now…

Thing is, with Trump talking about breaking up the EU and raising tariffs, it might make Euro wines more expensive and we might have to drink the Great American wines instead

What a dick thing to say.

[Alan_Eden]

@ERPark

@Alan Eden

@ERPark

Ah, the legend of the OP continues to get burnished in the wine forum community. He left the Wine Spectator forum in a huff b/c of getting called out for his repeated begging for then highly allocated releases. He was rightfully lambasted for trying to flip one at a cost above the allocation price, with an excuse that it didn’t fit his palate. No attempt whatsoever at paying it forward to someone else on the forum, by offering it at the same allocation price he’d paid plus shipping.

Im sure this will be reported back on the wine vagina forum that ER refers to, im not going to get into the old arguments, i will say that the wine vagina members are elitist and exclusionist if you dont kiss their ass. A lot of them like Jorge B behave very civilly on berserkers but some like erpark just look to flame two year bullshit because they have nothing better to do

Time moves on, but some things never change.

The only BS here is you who constantly ask for advice on flippable allocations, and offer nothing of substance in return. That shtick grew tiresome for the WS forum, and the WB forum doesn’t have much patience for that either. You’ve been rightfully called out by forumites of both boards. But it’s never your fault, huh?

Whatever, if that thought process makes you happy then go for it

[Kirk.Grant]

@Markus S

@S. Stevenson

@Kirk.Grant

To me, it seems be a reflection of a few things:
Wines are priced at the point where they are no longer “easy flips”; that seems to be an effort to exclude those looking to make a quick buck from being on the buying list.
Wines are above or just below a point where they are in the same realm of long-standing classic producers from France so some will not spend their money.

I’ve noticed that too. As an example, SQN’s price on auction is similar to winery direct prices(with the exception of 100 EBA ones which still flip for double). We all know about Harlan. Yes, it seems like flipping is becoming a thing of the past which will mean waiting lists will shrink(if not disappear) and the ‘I want what I can’t have’ buying impulse will disappear as well. Will the wine pricing model bubble then burst? If I were a winery I’d be getting nervous right about now…

Thing is, with Trump talking about breaking up the EU and raising tariffs, it might make Euro wines more expensive and we might have to drink the Great American wines instead

It’s possible…however, I’m not going to fret over what may, or may not happen with Trump; I don’t need wine getting political when I have more politics than I want in my day-to-day job. To me it’s like saying, "A meteor could land in Burgundy so stop buying Burgundy because Pinot Noir will be hard to get from other good producers if that happens.

[David_Cooper]

I can’t see a problem with higher tariffs for EU products in the US. We are happy to become a dumping ground for all of the Euro wines America won’t take.

[John_Morris]

@David Cooper

I can’t see a problem with higher tariffs for EU products in the US. We are happy to become a dumping ground for all of the Euro wines America won’t take.

Then the repeal of Nafta will push down the Canadian dollar against the US dollar and Americans will come flooding over the border to snap up wine bargains!

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

Unless Trudeau puts up that wall!

[Dav_d_Parta_n]

@Kirk.Grant

It’s possible…however, I’m not going to fret over what may, or may not happen with Trump; I don’t need wine getting political when I have more politics than I want in my day-to-day job. To me it’s like saying, "A meteor could land in Burgundy so stop buying Burgundy because Pinot Noir will be hard to get from other good producers if that happens.

Back to wine, I see Cayuse, No Girls and SQN languishing on retail shelves here. Things have changed as this would not be a few years ago.

[ykwon]

Looks like i made the list after two short years. Allocated a three pack of Syrah. Probably passing though.

Edited: saw it was two years versus six months.

[Alan_Eden]

@D@v!d P@rt@!n

@Kirk.Grant

It’s possible…however, I’m not going to fret over what may, or may not happen with Trump; I don’t need wine getting political when I have more politics than I want in my day-to-day job. To me it’s like saying, "A meteor could land in Burgundy so stop buying Burgundy because Pinot Noir will be hard to get from other good producers if that happens.

Back to wine, I see Cayuse, No Girls and SQN languishing on retail shelves here. Things have changed as this would not be a few years ago.

Where do see SQN at retail ?

Are they at release price or marked up

[Kirk.Grant]

@Alan Eden

@D@v!d P@rt@!n

@Kirk.Grant

It’s possible…however, I’m not going to fret over what may, or may not happen with Trump; I don’t need wine getting political when I have more politics than I want in my day-to-day job. To me it’s like saying, "A meteor could land in Burgundy so stop buying Burgundy because Pinot Noir will be hard to get from other good producers if that happens.

Back to wine, I see Cayuse, No Girls and SQN languishing on retail shelves here. Things have changed as this would not be a few years ago.

Where do see SQN at retail ?

Are they at release price or marked up

I’ve seen them all at retail in the major cities like NYC, Boston, and stores like HDH frequently have some for sale, plus winebid.com always has some. Most of them seem about $25-$50 over list price with the exception of the EBA’s those can still go for double from release price in years of high praise or w/multiple 100 point scores from different critics.

[S_Stevenson]

I’ve seen them all at retail in the major cities like NYC, Boston, and stores like HDH frequently have some for sale, plus winebid.com always has some. Most of them seem about $25-$50 over list price with the exception of the EBA’s those can still go for double from release price in years of high praise or w/multiple 100 point scores from different critics.

My point earlier. No need to be on these lists any longer, buying wines you don’t want to keep your place on the list. You can get them in a number of places for just about list(exception noted above with EBA’s). What killed the waiting list model was the greed of the winerys’. Many are now marking up their prices to just shy of the secondary/auction market. What they do not realize is that much of the price of the secondary market in cult wines is the illusion of scarcity(WOW, I just got a wine that has a 10 year waiting list!), not necessarily the intrinsic value of the wine itself. Once those waiting lists dry up, so does much of the demand(built up by wanting something I can’t have) and in turn leading to a significant price drop. It really is a house of cards as producers are seeing/will see.

[terrance.c]

Won’t somebody please think of the children flippers?!

[David_Glasser]

So here’s a single data point with respect to cult wines. Make of it what you will.

In the process of cutting way back on wine buying, I passed on Screaming Eagle last year. To my surprise, I received an allocation this year.

The glass half full interpretation is that they are simply being loyal to a long-term customer who, for all they know, had a temporary lapse last year. Or maybe the waiting list isn’t so long any more, and it’s easier to keep an old customer than to find a new one.

[Scott_Everson]

OK, I think I’m getting a feel for this board now. Talking about wine vagina forums, that’s acceptable. But bringing up Marion Barry smoking crack, that’s not acceptable. Great.

[Kirk.Grant]

@S. Stevenson

I’ve seen them all at retail in the major cities like NYC, Boston, and stores like HDH frequently have some for sale, plus winebid.com always has some. Most of them seem about $25-$50 over list price with the exception of the EBA’s those can still go for double from release price in years of high praise or w/multiple 100 point scores from different critics.

My point earlier. No need to be on these lists any longer, buying wines you don’t want to keep your place on the list. You can get them in a number of places for just about list(exception noted above with EBA’s). What killed the waiting list model was the greed of the winerys’. Many are now marking up their prices to just shy of the secondary/auction market. What they do not realize is that much of the price of the secondary market in cult wines is the illusion of scarcity(WOW, I just got a wine that has a 10 year waiting list!), not necessarily the intrinsic value of the wine itself. Once those waiting lists dry up, so does much of the demand(built up by wanting something I can’t have) and in turn leading to a significant price drop. It really is a house of cards as producers are seeing/will see.

I could be wrong…but I think there are still some folks that will stay when there’s always a way to tweak the list in the favor of the loyal customer. Look at that PS Magnum SQN made. Not everyone on the list got it…and the price went through the roof immediately, their Chardonnay…same thing. There’s always going to be some new way to feed the hype machine. Maybe I’m wrong…but I think M&E have a smart business plan. They’re innovative, they make outstanding wines, and their customers seem pretty loyal.

Someone else mentioned being re-offered a list after missing a year. I had that experience with Cayuse and was glad for the offer. It was a year I bought my house & money was tight. It’s a model that seems to be customer focused…and that will always work through the ups & downs of a market.

[S_Stevenson]

@Kirk.Grant

@S. Stevenson

I’ve seen them all at retail in the major cities like NYC, Boston, and stores like HDH frequently have some for sale, plus winebid.com always has some. Most of them seem about $25-$50 over list price with the exception of the EBA’s those can still go for double from release price in years of high praise or w/multiple 100 point scores from different critics.

My point earlier. No need to be on these lists any longer, buying wines you don’t want to keep your place on the list. You can get them in a number of places for just about list(exception noted above with EBA’s). What killed the waiting list model was the greed of the winerys’. Many are now marking up their prices to just shy of the secondary/auction market. What they do not realize is that much of the price of the secondary market in cult wines is the illusion of scarcity(WOW, I just got a wine that has a 10 year waiting list!), not necessarily the intrinsic value of the wine itself. Once those waiting lists dry up, so does much of the demand(built up by wanting something I can’t have) and in turn leading to a significant price drop. It really is a house of cards as producers are seeing/will see.

I could be wrong…but I think there are still some folks that will stay when there’s always a way to tweak the list in the favor of the loyal customer. Look at that PS Magnum SQN made. Not everyone on the list got it…and the price went through the roof immediately, their Chardonnay…same thing. There’s always going to be some new way to feed the hype machine. Maybe I’m wrong…but I think M&E have a smart business plan. They’re innovative, they make outstanding wines, and their customers seem pretty loyal.

Someone else mentioned being re-offered a list after missing a year. I had that experience with Cayuse and was glad for the offer. It was a year I bought my house & money was tight. It’s a model that seems to be customer focused…and that will always work through the ups & downs of a market.

Yes, SQN does release super limited wines(last offering was the Straw wine), but does one really want/need those rarities? And if one does, pay the price on the secondary market. But their bread and butter has become available for release price(and in some cases lower) so there’s that as well. I still get the feeling that the Golden Goose is limping toward the finish line.

[Scott_E1]

@Kirk.Grant

Someone else mentioned being re-offered a list after missing a year. I had that experience with Cayuse and was glad for the offer. It was a year I bought my house & money was tight. It’s a model that seems to be customer focused…and that will always work through the ups & downs of a market.

So that’s why it takes so dang long to come up on their wait list…