I agree with Wes, I don’t think it’s the consumers duty to have done their homework before they buy a bottle of wine. For that matter, wine merchants sometimes have to judge wines without knowing much about the type.
Pinot Noir has been obscured to some extent by the modern CA tendency towards extreme ripeness, a tendency that is fortunately receding; but anyone who has drunk the older Chalone Pinots (from the early '80s, for example) knows that very good, ageworthy Pinot is perfectly possible here. And as Roberto has pointed out, some very good wines were made of Barbera here by Louis Martini, decades ago; and by Steve Clifton, quite recently. Vermentino has enormous promise, too.
DarrellCorti likes to tell the story (in one of his Newsletters back in the late '70’s) of one of the famous B/B winemakers who
was visiting him and Darrell showed him one of CaryGott’s Montevina SpecialSelect Barberas. The winemaker (I’ll try to dredge
up his name) was shocked and declared the Barbera as being better than anything they could make in the Piemonte.
Obviously, in the FWIW category. But there have been some pretty amazing Barberas made in Calif over the yrs.
The Martinis were some of them, made in an old-timey Calif style. And they would easily go out 20-30 yrs. Because they were
pasteurized and went into the btl totally sterilized. SteveClifton’s are some of the best around.
Tom
Are we really getting into another discussion about “better”? Why can’t wines just be different? CA PN vs. Burg. Barolo vs. domestic Neb. They’re just different. You can have a preference but absolute (and absolutist) statements just don’t make sense to me in most contexts. And if you’re saying you can’t say one is good without having tasted the other, “well, I don’t know what to say to you.”
In my fantasy world, talking about the variety would be banned–only place and producer would be allowed. Of course, that means that the place would have to have an established identity, and the American appellation system is no help there.
I’ll shut up now, because I know my fantasy world is not at all acceptable, but I can dream…
Unti in Dry Creek make some Italian varieties; Ryme, although I don’t know how they handle visits, but some colleagues went there and were very impressed.
I suppose I’ve been forgetting that Zinfandel came from Italy (if it didn’t originate there), and I would argue that Zin is one example of a grape that does better here than where it came from. So add Storybook Mountain and Ridge Dry Creek.
Thanks. Unti was on the radar. And I will consider Ryme. I have a call in to the Vintners Group California manager to see what options he has. Was going to have lunch at Bouchon, But now may have to rethink it, as they don’t have any of the wines I am looking for. Oenotri has a really nice list, but I didn’t see the wines. I did think about Ridge, but I just really struggle with Zin.
Gary,
Yup…by conincidence, I just placed an order w/ Unti. They have a Fiano they just released.
Ryme is a definite “yes” if you can make arrangements. Their Aglianico '07 is the worlds greatest Aglianico (yup…I’ve done did my homework, Gary…have
probably had some 25-30 Italians of that variety). Don’t know where they make their wine…probably at WindGap where Ryan is asst winemaker. WindGap also has
a Nebbiolo from LunaMatta/Paso.
You can contact MeganGlaab at: Megan <megan@rymecellars.com> to get a visit if you can.
Oenotri is a terrific restaurant w/ some amazing wines on the list. Terrific pizzas.
Tom
Well I have some things to look for. Some producers in/around Avellino, Benevento and Vulture might want to get in on the discussion about greatest Aglianico. Thanks for the contact.
No way, Oliver. I’m already head (sorta) of the NEB group and not doing that job very well. Adding Schiava/Freisa/Marzemmino…
don’t think I could handle that.
Exposing my SantaFe group to Schippettino/Refosco from Friuli tonight. Most of them never heard of those,
let alone tried one. Would love to have a Skerk in there.
Tom
I have found a restaurant in SF that has quite a few of the wines on their list. Switched reso to hit this place. Is the Aglianico you are talking about the Aglianico “Luna Matta”?
Gary - You might try Reverie on Diamond Mtn Road for there barbera. I had heard their barbera was well made and I believe that Ted Lemon was/is consulting to them. I tried to visit them during the offseason but they were not open to visits. Call ahead to see if barbera is available for tasting. They are more Bordeaux varietals focused…http://www.reveriewine.com/index.shtml …Gary
Gary - also try some from Washington. Leonetti and Kiona for example, make Sangiovese.
As far as a “standard”, that’s very subjective. Grapes mostly arrived from somewhere else in all parts of the world. They may have mutated or hybridized naturally in some regions, but they were brought over by someone at some point. Because we’ve become accustomed to a few iterations of various wines over the last 70 years doesn’t mean that’s all that should exist. In Piedmont, the Barolo of today is very different from the Barolo last century. Wine traditions change with time and until rather recently, the wines of Piedmont were most likely sweet wines because that’s what people liked.
No reason to tell people to study some other region to make a wine from a particular grape when that grape can do pretty well, albeit differently, in another area. Argentina is a perfect example - it’s vineyards are higher than any in the world and the latitude where most of the wine is from at the moment is far closer to the equator than anywhere in France, but their Malbec and Bonarda aren’t all that bad even tho they don’t resemble anything like the wine in France and Italy.
And to get off Italian varieties for a moment, what about something like Tempranillo? What is the model for that? Should it be what some consider “traditional” Rioja which isn’t in fact traditional until our lifetime, or should it be something from Toro today?
Precisely why I harbor a fantasy to ban talk over varieties as THE measure. First, such talk inevitably leads to comparison; second, the comparison generally lacks clarity for the reasons Greg gives.
Finally, benchmarking is what a winemaker needs to do to learn and to produce–not to learn to reproduce.
The Ryme Aglianico I was referring to is the '08 that we had a few weeks ago. We’ve also had the '10, which is very/very good as well.
The '09 is still in barrel.
They are all from the LunaMatta vnyd in Paso.
Tom
My main point in my post awhile back is that these wines, thought touted in the LA Times, are difficult to find at most retail places and, especially, at restaurants in So Cal. Yes, there are exceptions, but you’d think that the restaurant in SF that was mentioned above would not be an outlier here, but would instead be one of many that is willing to expose their customers to domestic takes on these varieties.
I also agree that it’s difficult to truly ‘compare’ domestic versions with something from somewhere else - we are NOT there and therefore the subsequent wines will not mirror those wines exactly. That said, if I owned an Italian restaurant, I would certainly expose my customers to many of the wines mentioned here - just as if I owned a tapas restaurant, I’d keep some domestic Ibeerian varieties on the list.
To me, exposure continues to be the key here. Props to the LA Times for the piece - now let’s see where it goes from here . . .