I have one visit set and am working on another. But it has been hinted that I am turning this into a “wine trip”. And it is not supposed to be one. Just a little time off out on the west coast. If it was up to me I would have four visits and twenty bottles with ten glasses on the table for lunch. Maybe this needs to be a little more relaxed. I think the Ryme is the 2010.
As far as “standards”, “taste” and “subjective”, people here in Virginia use this argument to make the case for the wines being world class. I am not buying it in either case. If everything is great then nothing is great. In looking over the producers websites I read where one producer was inspired by the wines that they found in this region in Italy. Lucky for him that someone in Italy was following tradition instead of pulling up the native grapes and making some really nice Chard or even Blueberry wine.
Larry - People have a reason for how they set their list. At least the good one’s anyway. I don’t have any Virginia grown Italian grapes/wines on the list. Because I don’t think that the Virginia wine measure up. Not in quality and not in price. Part of my job is to find great wine at great prices. And put them in front of people. It’s as simple as that, maybe many of those places feel the same way. To do anything other would be wrong. Yes, I come from an old world school, I have been to Piedmont 16 times. But do you really want someone that knows nothing about Barbera picking your Barbera for you? On a wine list I want to see a lot more Beatles, and a lot less Oasis.
I can understand an ethnic restaurant seeking to pair the menu with ethnic wines–that makes perfect sense. In your case, that is your focus. But I’d like to point out that “native” is a word that might need to be defined. Many grapes in Italy originated elsewhere.
Thank heavens. There was a time when Chardonnay from Sicily and Merlot from Tuscany were the Italian cool kids, thank God that’s over and people are prizing their indigenous varieties.
Well…yes & no, Gary. If I were visiting your restaurant and had a choice between a Vietti Barbera or a Barboursville Barbera; guess which one I would choose??
Knowing full well that no way the Barboursville would measure up to the Vietti. But it would be a nice option for me to have. You would, of course, think I’m
a doofus for making that choice and maybe scold me for being so stupid…but that’s OK.
SanteFe, being a great restaurant town, I encourage our restrauteurs to put at least one token NM or CO wine on their list and will often suggest one that’s
pretty decent.
Tom
Tom, I remember a great article on Barboursville from many years ago. Luca was asked about the Italian varieties in VA and seemed to be answering honestly. I remember that he was real happy with the Barbera. I don’t remember the exact way he phrased it but something along the lines of the Barbera performs as well here as in Italy but the Sangiovese has been a disappointment.
It’s been a long time since I have had one of Luca’s Barberas but have never had one that I felt was unworthy. But for the Italian varieties from Barboursville, I prefer the Nebbiolo. Knowing your interst in the grape, that is the one you want to try if you ever find yourself in a restaurant in VA.
The Wind Gap production moved to a facility in the Barlow in Sebastopol, I think the Forestville location will be used for the newly rejuvenated Pax line.
I had not looked in here for a while and discovered this discussion of wineries in California that make wine with Italian cepages. Since I am a partner of Jim Moore in Uvaggio and of Jim Clendenen in Ici la bas, I thought I would toot our collective horn.
About ten years ago we arranged a series of blind tastings with Il Podere dell Olivos (Clendenen) and Uvaggio (Moore) and Italian wines that Marco di Grazia had selected. In every case the American wines showed well and were more than price competitive.
Back then we were labeled as Cal-Ital but we are trying to emphasize the Mediteranean…Medi-Cal!
We made some credible Sangioveses and Nebbiolos but gave up. Could not make money with the sangio and nobody cares about nebbiolo. Let me put it another way: people who drink Nebbiolo go straight to Barolo and Barbaresco. They are not interested in a $20 bottle that tastes like a nice nebbiolo. They are interested in a $50 bottle that says, Gaja, get a day job.
I might add that some Nebbiolos and Barberas that Clendenen made in the 90s are showing great now.
Uvaggio now makes Vermentino, Moscato Giallo, Barbera and Primitivo with Lodi grapes. Lodi is ideal for these varieties.
Uvaggio is a virtual winery. We buy grapes and make wine at friends’ wineries. No tasting room. Palmina has three things going for it: 1/the owners 2/the wine and 3/the tasting room. A tasting room gives you the chance to get people to try what they normally wouldn t think about.
I keep thinking we would be of interest to the mainstream wine publications. Everyone talks about high alcohol. Our reds touch 14 and the whites 13. Everyone complains about high prices and we are under $20 for the most part…sometimes under $15. Not too many folks make Vermentino here.
Behind every wine sale is a big argument. We just need to keep arguin’.
Tom, your idea that restaurants and wine shops should feature local wines is a noble one. How many times do I see a ‘locavore’ restaurant with Italian olive oil and wine?? And no local Vermentino or Barbera??
Thanks for chiming in here, Mel. I buy your Uvaggio wines over in Sac at Darrell’s. The MoscatoGiallo is amazingly good. And the Vermentino is quite good. “JugWine” Lodi??? Not on your life…some
very good wines coming from those grapes. If they’re good enough for Carlisle/Bedrock/Turley/Ridge (which I assume you must recall…since you’ve been around the block a time or two, Mel)…they must be doing/growing
something good there.
I tasted w/ Jim thru most of his old Nebbiolos in August. I was impressed as to how they have evolved. Gaja-level??? Nope…but darned good in their own right.
As for $50 Gaja…I’d like to shop where you do, Mel.
As a principal of NEB (Nebbiolo Enthusiasts & Believers), I’m very familiar w/ the bias of Nebbiolo folks towards Barolo/Barbaresco. Those people are a lost cause and wouldn’t recognize
a good Calif (and there are plenty of them) Nebb if it hit them upside the head. Actually, some B/B folks are starting to/grudgingly recognize the quality of the Nebbs that come out of the AltoPiemonte/
OltropoPavese/Valtelline. It’s sorta an uphill slog…but it’s happening. Those folks, who have an open mind when it comes to Nebb, and lovers of Calif Syrah & Zin, who could care less about B/B;
those are our target audience. If you can get them to try a Calif (or WashState or Arizona) Nebb, you can open some eyes. But you’re right, Mel…we need to keep arguin’
Tom
“I’m very familiar w/ the bias of Nebbiolo folks towards Barolo/Barbaresco. Those people are a lost cause and wouldn’t recognize a good Calif (and there are plenty of them) Nebb if it hit them upside the head.”
What a tool - because someone happens to like nebbiolo actually grown in Barolo & Barbaresco, they are biased and a lost cause? Unfreakinbelievable.
Tom, have you considered perhaps penning a screenplay where a physicist in NM sees his life as a methophor for Nebbiolo or something? It could work.
Interesting article but I was hoping to see some mention of Livermore, since Italian varieties are some of the most exciting new stuff going on here, particularly from Ruby Hill, which happens to be the property Randall Grahm considered buying after selling Bonny Doon.
The article is Central Coast-centric but I guess that’s appropriate for an LA rag. Matthaisson is mentioned but I admit his work is noteworthy.
Well, an interesting way to wrap things up. I am sorry that I don’t have time to get down to Lompac and Santa Barbara. Maybe the next trip. I have purchased and sold Au Bon Climat, Podere dell Olivos and Uvaggio wines. Recently they were out of the market because Au Bon Climat wines were moving from the Vintner Group. Not sure where they landed. But the wines are good so I am sure they will turn up somewhere. I will try to taste as many as I can during my visit and will bring a few bottles back. We will see what the wines have to say.
A few years ago I was sitting in the tasting room of Bruno Rocca in Barbaresco, just above the Rabaja vineyards. Some other people were tasting with us. Not sure what they were doing there, maybe they were a lost cause like me. They were from Palmina.
Damn, thought I posted my 2 cents, looks like the interwebs got the best of me. Okay one last time… I’m going to avoid most of controversy here and just say that I think California is finally coming into it’s own with the Italian varietals. After a rough start thanks to not “getting” Sangiovese, there is alot of good stuff out there. Glad Palmina got a shout out in the article. Here are a few others:
The George Vare (RIP) mob – Massican, Matthiason, Arnot Roberts, Arbe Garbe – Just go out and drink all these wines Italians or not. They are ridiculous. Period.
Segheshio - Known for zins but do an incredible job with the Italian program and alot of people don’t even realize it! FWIW they got Sangiovese right.
Ryme Vermentino & Aglianico – Good stuff coming out of the Wind Gap garage from Pax’s asst winemaker and his wife, white and red both.
Clendenen Nebbiolo - Jim nails it on the head with this Nebbi, and the price point kills. Talk about QPR.
Uvaggio Barbera - Liked this alot when we used to carry it. Believe he does just Itals. Also believe someone in thread already mentioned it.
Forlorn Hope, Ambyth, Palmina, the list goes on and on.
Uvaggio is available in California through Henry Wine Group. In NY it s Sherbrooke Cellars.
My point about Nebbiolo is that most lovers of this variety are not looking for easy drinking everyday wine. They want great stuff. They are happy to wait 20 years. Some day some wealthy tech guy obsessed with nebbiolo will do something great with that variety in California or Washington. There is no reason it cannot be done.
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