Well, that’s one of the things. In a recent conversation elsewhere with mostly Italy-based Italian wine professionals, I made a half-humorous observation that, for Cornelissen’s wines, even a short trip from Solicchiata to Piedimonte Etneo constitutes an insurmountable challenge. But then, several people commented that the Magma bottles they’d had in France over the years usually tasted a lot more “stable”, for lack of a better word, which I found a little curious.
Pointing to Marcus’ post above, the commentary on this subject became a rewarding and constructive one as the number of posts increased, after a few initial posts that were neither enlightening nor helpful. I am generally not a fan of no or low sulphur wines, as most that I’ve had were not enjoyable to drink for one reason or another. I am a fan of Frank because he’s honest and trying to make something that he believes will capture Etna. I’ve probably had about 30 bottles of Frank’s wines and have enjoyed about 4/5th. The other 20% were seriously flawed due to overpowering VA or being oxidized.
Of the 80%, some bottles still had some VA. On my palate, though, a low level of VA can be a positive and, if not positive, can still be at a level that does not detract in a meaningful way from my enjoying the wine. I know that many find any level of noticeable VA intolerable, a perfectly reasonably view.
Frank’s best bottles are thrilling with precision and impressive intenstiy, but I sympathize with those who do not want to buy his wines because of bad experiences or the risks involved. The concerns are legitimate ones. I believe that the risks have decreased dramatically, but they are still there.
Absolutely.
Since you brought it up, Ken, I’m curious, what part of this post is enlightening? Or helpful? Is it that you have an opinion? Or is it that the cult of personality trumps actual performance (MI, anyone?)? Or is it that educated people, discussing a matter in depth creates a valuable dialogue? Or is it that passive aggressive comments are your M.O.?
I spent 2 weeks in Sicily this year, part of a 3 month trip to Italy, all wine related, in an effort to become enlightened; 9 of those days were on Etna. I started by learning about the land and the grapes first. And last. Frank’s story is great. He’s an interesting, and charming guy, and I wish him the best. But producing a wine that people are afraid to travel with, or repurchase, well, that’s a fool’s errand. To your point, I don’t mind a little VA, and I certainly don’t mind individuality (e.g. personal philosophies re: thinning, elevage, etc.). Unless they come at the expense of the place and the grape, and the wine; to the real students (i.e. not fanboys), that’s all that truly matters.
FWIW, I will spend another month in Etna region this fall, and another month in the coming Spring, because, as I said before, the story (about the land, and the accomplishments and the potential) are that great. In my opinion, anyway. And, because I wish to become enlightened; 13 yrs a fan and student of the region’s wines has created a draw that I’m powerless to ignore.
When all is said and done, how did these wines compare to others produced in the region that are done in a more traditional manner?
I bring this up because one wonders what these wines would truly be like if there were made in a more traditional manner. No, I’m not suggesting that Frank change what he does. It is his story and his vision and I certainly applaud individuality.
At the end of the day, though, individuality only goes so far when it comes to a finished product. As other winemakers have pointed out, should we take the angle that we can only produce very unstable products and charge a decent amount of money for them, knowing that they probably will not stand the test of time?
This really gets down to the philosophical question of the intrinsic qualities of what makes a wine goodelivery, great, or just ok.
I’m brought back to other threads about wines that are beautiful young, but probably will not age wonderfully. Many on this board would never consider these potentially great wines because of that. Is that truly the case?
No finite answers here, just a lot to think about.
Cheers.
A cheeky provocation from me - is Cornelissen actually more traditional through avoiding sulphur?
I want this on a t-shirt. I visited Cornelissen with my producer from nearby (Giuseppe Russo from Girolamo Russo), and Cornelissen spent 15 minutes telling him to give up SO2 completely.
But you see, Oliver, that is because, as we heard further up in this thread, he is not at all dogmatic, just “honest”, and striving to make something which he believes will reflect something that he is trying to achieve, or something along these lines (all very enlightening and helpful).
Let’s face it: Giuseppe Russo is probably just not as “honest” as Frank, and Frank was just doing his damnedest to bring him back to the straight and narrow. Cause, like, Frank knows ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
(Irony aside, isn’t it just priceless when a relative apprentice lectures someone who gets very good advice and guidance from people who have been at this, and have been brilliant at it in every respect, for quite a while… I would pay to be a fly on the wall when Frank decides to impart some of his pearls of wisdom to Salvo Foti 
)
Foti is pretty natural, but still, could be a clash of titans.
It’s the Bacchus Church of Natural Wine, you’re either a believer or you’re not.
A clash of titans? Please… Foti and Cornelissen do not even belong in the same sentence, if you ask me.
Paraphrasing from memory, but, as Foti famously quipped to Andrea Scanzi, natural is great and all that, but then we might as well say that a lady with facial hair is just a matter of taste, in which case, thank you, but no.
To me, their respective wines clearly reflect that distinction. No small difference, from where I stand.
Curious, how bottles of this Jekyll and Hyde juice do fans take to a restaurant to insure a good experience?
Naturally, I also would like to know, do you calculate additional corkage fees into the variable cost of the good bottles in that circumstance as well, or am I out of line asking and this is wine, by reputation, relegated to be consumed in private settings?
Could this be some kind of scam, where Frank makes some good old natural wine, but puts mixed cases together which include failed juice to boost profits and how would one know? ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
I’ll see your cheeky provocation and offer you one back.
His grapes are organically farmed, so it doesn’t appear to me that he avoids sulphur at all 
My post here is just food for thought, not a bashing.
Nothing is more important to me than that my wines capture the Willamette Valley and beyond that the individual vineyard site. This is my reason for being in the winery.
From native yeast, to use of stems, to doing only hand(and foot) work. None of our sites use irrigation, there are no cold soaks for extraction or enzymes for that matter. Minimalist with intent is the mantra I follow and Rene Lafon’s statement to his son Dominique that, “sometimes you must have the courage to do nothing” guides my evolution as a winemaker. That’s said, the first word is “sometimes”.
I like VA around the threshold for perception. Any winemaker using a significant amount of stems has to have made their peace with VA.
But…
While a little VA may be enjoyable, VA tastes the same in wines from Oregon, Spain, France, Italy, or anywhere else. VA, Brett, reduction, or Pediococcus all can add nuances to wine, but as with new oak barrels, they do not add singularity of any kind.
IMO, truly capturing a place in the wine is not about genius winemakers reinventing the wheel. It’s about doing good work in the cellar. Mr. Miyagi style. Wax on, wax off.
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One of the things I find particularly amusing are his back labels which state “senza l’aggiunta di qualsiasi altro prodotto” (literally “no other product added”). First off, and somewhat facetiously , I often end up wishing he would also add some wine . Secondly, it just leaves one wondering: what exactly is he implying by “other products”? What exactly is it he believes most of his neighbours working the Versante Nord slopes are putting in their bottles? Or is he just trying to make sure his wines don’t get mistaken for Yellow Tail?
Since he’s all about full disclosure, and now that he finally seems to have owned up, perhaps in warm vintages his back labels should also include something like “Oh, and, BTW, honestly, I’m not really that good at handling warm vintages, so, please, bear that in mind before you decide to cough up 250$ for this truly unique, if not necessarily particularly successful, effort. Thank you for your adventurous spirit and forgiving nature” .
Holier-than-thou and self-deprecation make very, very strange bedfellows, I would think. Works for some, though, apparently, so what do I know.
That’s funny
Although I can’t say I am a stranger to trying to combine holier-than-thou and self-deprecation…it’s kind of mandatory for winemakers.
E.g. “great wines are made in the vineyard” he says self deprecatingly. Followed shortly by, “I would never use a insert intervention of choice here in my winemaking”
![[welldone.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/fc9709a841aa9379fd892a9cf0b535b05f473b86.gif "[welldone.gif]"){kind=small}
Indeed
Envoyer has an offer on the Susucaru 19. This thread was very helpful! I assume no one’s changed their mind in the last four years.
Stopped reading the offer after the first line “Considered the pinnacle of Sicilian wine”
I met frank at domaine la a few years ago and he poured magma that had been open for 24 hours that was spectacular. I don’t routinely buy his wines because they’re expensive but I enjoyed contadino back when he made it, it is definitely very grapey, though.