Quality Rose?

[Markus_S]

I understand and have watched rose’ being made. How does someone create one that is meant for aging? It’s a pretty simple process.

If we accept that whites can be aged, we must aslo accept that rosées can be aged.

I accept that they can be aged, but there were some posts saying some are meant to be aged. I just wondered if folks knew something I didn’t. Pick time, grape used, skin contact time, etc.

Making reds are pretty simple too. Crush grapes, ferment, bottle. Are you saying red wines cannot age as well?

[Markus_S]

I just find that rose tends to be an afternoon quaffing wine in our house, thrown back on hot days, so not even in really in situations where top quality would matter, if the bottle is finished in 10 minutes.

This is probably the thinking of 99.8% of wine drinkers out there. In my mind, the best time to open one is when the snow is high and the cold nigh, as these wines rekindle a summer warmth.

[larry_schaffer]

I will say that some of the most challenging wines I make are roses. There is very little I do from the moment the grape comes in until it goes in the bottle as opposed to reds that stay in older oak for a very long period of time. They are about as transparent a wine as you can find if done right.

[Arv_R]

I just find that rose tends to be an afternoon quaffing wine in our house, thrown back on hot days, so not even in really in situations where top quality would matter, if the bottle is finished in 10 minutes.

This is probably the thinking of 99.8% of wine drinkers out there. In my mind, the best time to open one is when the snow is high and the cold nigh, as these wines rekindle a summer warmth.

We had this yesterday afternoon after a bike ride; it might have lasted 13 minutes. Not very memorable. When something is really just byproduct of bleeding off tanks, its hard to think it would be special. I view rose as ‘hot dogs’ compared to primal cuts of meat.

[Markus_S]

I view rose as ‘hot dogs’ compared to primal cuts of meat.

Ahh, you’ve never had real hot dogs before!

[Michael_Martin]

If we accept that whites can be aged, we must aslo accept that rosées can be aged.

I accept that they can be aged, but there were some posts saying some are meant to be aged. I just wondered if folks knew something I didn’t. Pick time, grape used, skin contact time, etc.

Making reds are pretty simple too. Crush grapes, ferment, bottle. Are you saying red wines cannot age as well?

You forgot a few possible steps like press, oak, fine and filter, but you know what you’re talking about, right?

[Chris_Seiber]

Conterno-Nervi Il Rosato is really good. It’s only existed since 2018, but tasting the young ones and especially with it being made from Nebbiolo, I think it would be a good bet to age well.

As much as you can guess that a rose without an aging track record will age well, I suppose.

It also has a screwcap which helps.

[Mariano_Chiaramonte]

Last week I had a 2008 Tondonia Gran Reserva rosado that blew my mind away, I think that in a double blind I would have never guessed that was a rosè, probably I would have go for Burgundy. We drank it for over an hour and it never stopped evolving and gaining complexity. The only problem is that the price got a little bit crazy in the US, but for €30 at a restaurant in Rioja it felt like one of the biggest bargains I’ve ever had

Rub it in.
You bring up a good topic. Many of my favorite “roses” are more like light reds.

Which begs the question - define ‘quality’? Does it mean age worthy? Dies it mean ‘with substance’?

Cheers

Good question. I think that it means neither of those descriptors, those sounds to me more like a personal preference. Maybe you need quality to have an age worthy wine but you can have a quality wine without being age worthy. My gut feeling about quality wine is that it starts with good healthy fruit

[larry_schaffer]

Mariano,

Thanks for your reply. I think it’s a ‘given’ that winemakers like to work with ‘good healthy fruit’ but to me, that’s as ‘subjective’ as any other measurement. I know that sounds somewhat ‘silly’ but it truly is subjective. To some winemakers, any vineyard that crops over ‘X tons per acre’ just cannot produce quality fruit; to some, only organic grapes = quality fruit; etc etc etc

Cheers

[David_Bu3ker]

“Good, healthy fruit”

Please define good.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

“Good, healthy fruit”

Please define good.

You’re asking for an explanation of the joke.

[David_Bu3ker]

“Good, healthy fruit”

Please define good.

You’re asking for an explanation of the joke.

Not at all. Defining “good” or “quality” is entirely subjective, and thus points out the uselessness of talking about “good fruit” or “quality wine.”

[larry_schaffer]

“Good, healthy fruit”

Please define good.

You’re asking for an explanation of the joke.

Not at all. Defining “good” or “quality” is entirely subjective, and thus points out the uselessness of talking about “good fruit” or “quality wine.”

Exactly, which is why I wrote what I did.

At the end of the day, as some have pointed out, most consumers think of roses as simple wines to serve chilled by the pool and really don’t expect them to have any ‘complexity’ which to me is too bad. Yes, I would say the majority of roses out there fit the ‘rose all day’ motto well and should be served as cold as possible to make them ‘refreshing’. But there are so many roses that do offer ‘complexity’ as well - and these are often best served closer to cellar temperature. I’m hopeful that more on this board will explore more roses and look at some of them as pairing as well with some foods as any white or red would.

Cheers.

[David_Bu3ker]

You’re asking for an explanation of the joke.

Not at all. Defining “good” or “quality” is entirely subjective, and thus points out the uselessness of talking about “good fruit” or “quality wine.”

Exactly, which is why I wrote what I did.

At the end of the day, as some have pointed out, most consumers think of roses as simple wines to serve chilled by the pool and really don’t expect them to have any ‘complexity’ which to me is too bad. Yes, I would say the majority of roses out there fit the ‘rose all day’ motto well and should be served as cold as possible to make them ‘refreshing’. But there are so many roses that do offer ‘complexity’ as well - and these are often best served closer to cellar temperature. I’m hopeful that more on this board will explore more roses and look at some of them as pairing as well with some foods as any white or red would.

Cheers.

I really dislike the “Rosé by the pool” type wines, and look for versions that have more to say than “hey, let’s get drunk.”

Your Mourvèdre Rosé, John Lockwood’s version and a very few others from the new world make me sit up and take notice.

[larry_schaffer]

That’s the beauty of making two different roses these days . . .

Cheers!

[EricZ]

I have limited history with tasting Rose and especially enjoying it as we never found one we liked. We tried some from producers we liked, we tried some from store clerk recommendations and as mentioned - had to get them really cold and was more “refreshing” than interesting.

Then we tried Larry’s Mourvèdre Rose (Tercero) and it changed our mind on Rose. We served it to some friends this summer at a gathering and everyone really enjoyed it.

[Markus_S]

PXL_20210919_215559598.jpg

That’s not a rose, that’s a Sauternes!
If you treat wines as ‘throwaways’, you’ll get garbage in return.

[Arv_R]

??

I only have a few bottles of rose on hand at any point in time, but whatever is on deck sits in the regular fridge for immediate slurping, and the others sit in wine fridges. rose is too weak / fragile to sit on kitchen racks, like a few other low end cooking/gluggers kept on hand.

Not treating the wine as garbage, but also not putting more effort/thought into something that is basically cooling fluid for hot days.

[Oliver_McCrum]

Conterno-Nervi Il Rosato is really good. It’s only existed since 2018, but tasting the young ones and especially with it being made from Nebbiolo, I think it would be a good bet to age well.

As much as you can guess that a rose without an aging track record will age well, I suppose.

It also has a screwcap which helps.

Northern Piedmont Nebbiolo rosé is a relatively new thing, but I think it’s one of the best rosé types in Italy. The best ones need some time in bottle to really show their stuff, we don’t bring them in until the fall following the vintage.

[larry_schaffer]

Conterno-Nervi Il Rosato is really good. It’s only existed since 2018, but tasting the young ones and especially with it being made from Nebbiolo, I think it would be a good bet to age well.

As much as you can guess that a rose without an aging track record will age well, I suppose.

It also has a screwcap which helps.

Northern Piedmont Nebbiolo rosé is a relatively new thing, but I think it’s one of the best rosé types in Italy. The best ones need some time in bottle to really show their stuff, we don’t bring them in until the fall following the vintage.

Just as Bandol roses used to be released in the Fall - but many are being released earlier due to demand. We’ll see if the same happens with Nebbiolo Roses in the future . . .

Cheers.