Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

[Craig_G]

@etomasi

Well, I had 4 bottles of 2013 that were never shipped. Ray called me about it a couple months ago and was allegedly going to get them in fall. I’ve just written those bottles off at this point.

This is unacceptable thread drift. Start your own 2013 Maison Ilan thread!

[rfelthoven]

But Chef Ludo is still onboard

[Craig_G]

@Todd F r e n c h

@CWun

@Todd F r e n c h

Supposedly there are quite a few bottles of late vintage Maison Ilan that aren’t GC Burgundy at all, but Santenay and Madeira…

Is this in jest, or another whispered rumor?

More rumor, but based on rather public purchases Ray has made recently, of multiple cases of each

I’m willing to believe just about anything at this point, but is there more than this? Which vintages are we talking about, and how many cases? And why would anyone use Madeira for this purpose?

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Randy Bowman

My concern has been the “unknown” investors. Many here may be out a few hundred dollars, but there were people that put some serious money out. Did they get their money back before the implosion? As I recall, Ray was preparing to build a new facility. That too had to come from investor funds. Then there were the new customers from China. Did they buy in? Buy futures?

I have heard that Anthony Bourdain was the latest money man.

[CFu]

@rfelthoven

But Chef Ludo is still onboard

He’s not. Old photo by Ray.

[Jack_Linden]

I love schadenfreude as much as anyone – especially in this case. But aren’t this guy’s 15 minutes way beyond over? Or will it take Asimov coming out with a follow-up saying: Oops?

[Chris_Blum]

@Dale Bowers

I wonder what Countries grow wine and don’t have an extradition treaty with France?

I believe winemaking was always just a means to an end for Ray. His next “passion” will be whatever feeds his starving ego. He’ll try to find some sucker to pay for his new lifestyle.

Maybe some sort of charity where he can try to overhaul his image while somebody else pays the bills… “I was in a bad place then, but I came to realize that helping others was the only way to help myself.”

[Rick_Smith]

How’s the Porsche driving?

[Philip_Ente]

The word on the streets of Gevrey is that he produced a Chambertin from grapes of such sub standard quality that no one else wanted them

Met this guy who had a lot to say also:

[URL=http://s322.photobucket.com/user/ente_09/media/aubert_zpsofxxeqm1.png.html][/url]

[Corey_N]

^ I’m not sure who that is on the right. Would it be fair to assume that he’s a helicopter pilot?

[Peter_Chiu]

@Randy Bowman

My concern has been the “unknown” investors. Many here may be out a few hundred dollars, but there were people that put some serious money out. Did they get their money back before the implosion? As I recall, Ray was preparing to build a new facility. That too had to come from investor funds. Then there were the new customers from China. Did they buy in? Buy futures?

You did your best …for the investors . Here is what you posted ( in this thread ) on 26 December 2015.

Many moons ago, when I supervised investigations, we investigated a possible Ponzi Scheme. We attended the fourth meeting for members and potential investors. After the presentation, (a clear cut pyramid scheme), we took over the podium, identified ourselves and even after showing the people in attendance the actual math, there were about 40 “investors” who became outright threatening when they realized they were going to lose their money. Everybody was provided with a number to call to declare their loss to recoup as much of their money as possible at the conclusion of the investigation. Those who were out the preliminary amount contacted us within a week. Only two of the early investors made contact. Whether it was embarrassment or fear they would also be prosecuted, most early investors either disappeared or filed complaints on us. The primary four we arrested that night plead guilty without a trial. Recovery was approximately 50%, primarily because they hadn’t had time to spend it all and owned homes that were seized and sold.

In other words, some people who put money into an “investment” that turns out to be a scam want the scam to continue in the futile hope it will go on long enough so they will get their money back.

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

@Philip Ente

The word on the streets of Gevrey is that he produced a Chambertin from grapes of such sub standard quality that no one else wanted them

How often does it happen that “high quality” Chambertin grapes get offered to completely new customers? And of those instances, how often are the successful new customers relatively new winery ventures?

Bruce

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Philip Ente

The word on the streets of Gevrey is that he produced a Chambertin from grapes of such sub standard quality that no one else wanted them

Met this guy who had a lot to say also:

[URL=http://s322.photobucket.com/user/ente_09/media/aubert_zpsofxxeqm1.png.html][/url]

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?style=10&p=248350#p248350

[Larry_Kaplan]

@Randy Bowman

My concern has been the “unknown” investors. Many here may be out a few hundred dollars, but there were people that put some serious money out. Did they get their money back before the implosion? As I recall, Ray was preparing to build a new facility. That too had to come from investor funds. Then there were the new customers from China. Did they buy in? Buy futures?

Randy I know the investor that was backing Maison Ilan I have no knowledge if he was made whole but rest assured even ray could not dent his funds and resources. He will be fine and he did have a blast experiencing all aspects of wine and wine making. Great life experience as he said.

[Michael_Bowden]

@Larry Kaplan

@Randy Bowman

My concern has been the “unknown” investors. Many here may be out a few hundred dollars, but there were people that put some serious money out. Did they get their money back before the implosion? As I recall, Ray was preparing to build a new facility. That too had to come from investor funds. Then there were the new customers from China. Did they buy in? Buy futures?

Randy I know the investor that was backing Maison Ilan I have no knowledge if he was made whole but rest assured even ray could not dent his funds and resources. He will be fine and he did have a blast experiencing all aspects of wine and wine making. Great life experience as he said.

So, are you saying that there was only 1 investor?

[Jorge_Henriquez]

And that he was fine losing his investment?

Must be nice…

[Larry_Kaplan]

@Michael Bowden

@Larry Kaplan

@Randy Bowman

My concern has been the “unknown” investors. Many here may be out a few hundred dollars, but there were people that put some serious money out. Did they get their money back before the implosion? As I recall, Ray was preparing to build a new facility. That too had to come from investor funds. Then there were the new customers from China. Did they buy in? Buy futures?

Randy I know the investor that was backing Maison Ilan I have no knowledge if he was made whole but rest assured even ray could not dent his funds and resources. He will be fine and he did have a blast experiencing all aspects of wine and wine making. Great life experience as he said.

So, are you saying that there was only 1 investor?

I should say i know the “latest” or “last” person to back this project and the guy who was helping right the ship prior to this new situation. When things appeared to be correcting and getting smoother it was do to this person’s investment and business acumen and hands on assistance that made this happen.

[Jay_T]

@Jorge Henriquez

And that he was fine losing his investment?

Must be nice…

I understand why people assume Ray’s investor(s) would feel swindled/pissed/litigious. But I think a lot of that is projection by Ray’s wine buyers. Obviously, it is possible that Ray found investors who were as gullible as the folks who spent a lot of money buying his wine. But Larry’s post seems far more likely to me. The kind of person who would invest in Ray’s French Adventure is somebody who would assume that he/she is almost certainly going to lose the investment and would view any kind of a positive return as a pleasant surprise. I mean, even if we didn’t know what we know now about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, we all know that (a) starting a new winery is a high risk, low upside endeavor, (b) Ray was setting out to do something largely novel, and (c) Ray had no experience whatsoever. So unless Ray was working the nursing home circuit, the most likely candidate(s) for Ray’s investors were always going to be people with tons of money who thought it would be fun to see what Ray might do but with the full knowledge that they’d probably never get that money back.

Ray’s investor(s) might be upset about the ethical issues and ugliness that surrounds the way Ray failed, but I doubt they are too surprised it didn’t work out, and if the failure of Maison Ilan causes anybody major financial hardship, then that person was an idiot for investing in the first place.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

@Philip Ente

The word on the streets of Gevrey is that he produced a Chambertin from grapes of such sub standard quality that no one else wanted them

How often does it happen that “high quality” Chambertin grapes get offered to completely new customers? And of those instances, how often are the successful new customers relatively new winery ventures?

Bruce

It does not happen too often; but I was shocked to learn that there were 12 (750ml) bottles being offered here in Quebec, Canada : Maison Ilan - Le Chambertin - Tete de Cuvee 2012 at CAD $602 per.

[Mike_Cohen]

@Jay T.

@Jorge Henriquez

And that he was fine losing his investment?

Must be nice…

I understand why people assume Ray’s investor(s) would feel swindled/pissed/litigious. But I think a lot of that is projection by Ray’s wine buyers. Obviously, it is possible that Ray found investors who were as gullible as the folks who spent a lot of money buying his wine. But Larry’s post seems far more likely to me. The kind of person who would invest in Ray’s French Adventure is somebody who would assume that he/she is almost certainly going to lose the investment and would view any kind of a positive return as a pleasant surprise. I mean, even if we didn’t know what we know now about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, we all know that (a) starting a new winery is a high risk, low upside endeavor, (b) Ray was setting out to do something largely novel, and (c) Ray had no experience whatsoever. So unless Ray was working the nursing home circuit, the most likely candidate(s) for Ray’s investors were always going to be people with tons of money who thought it would be fun to see what Ray might do but with the full knowledge that they’d probably never get that money back.

Ray’s investor(s) might be upset about the ethical issues and ugliness that surrounds the way Ray failed, but I doubt they are too surprised it didn’t work out, and if the failure of Maison Ilan causes anybody major financial hardship, then that person was an idiot for investing in the first place.

Not to excuse Ray’s behavior, but the above makes perfect sense to me. I have friends who have invested in a horse, a pro golfer, a liquor company, restaurant, etc. None of them thought that they would ever see a return on their investment or even get their money back. They just enjoyed being a part of something that was fun, cool, outside of their normal world.