Wine-searcher makes me cringe when I see average prices which are almost half that at the LCBO for virtually any vintage of any Bordeaux (or wine from anywhere for that matter).
Can a fellow Ontarian recommend an online retailer they have had good experiences using to purchase and have wine shipped to Ontario? One where there were no problems with the product itself, and where it was worth it after factoring in shipping, duty, and taxes?
Alternatively, can a fellow Ontario recommend a retailer they have had good experiences using to purchase online with the option to pick-up from a proper storage facility in Buffalo/Niagara Falls?
Welcome to the board, C. I use Benchmark more often than others and have been happy. I have a couple friends in different places in Ohio and Pennsylvania that I ship to, but obviously you could figure out someplace in Buffalo to get shipping done.
Otherwise, here you would be looking at getting some sort of private order in through a broker. Can PM me for some thoughts on that. Remember, though, that you usually have to order 6 or 12 bottles of a wine and the provincial liquor tax/premium will still be applied so you have to verify price.
Good luck
One thing I will say—in recent years, the LCBO has done a terrific job with pricing Brunello for sale here. It has been considerably more in almost any store stateside.
Thanks Mike. I’ll look into some of your suggestions.
With respect to shipping to your friends in Ohio/Penn, do you just go down for a few days and bring back 2 bottles each time? Or do you eat the cost of the duties/taxes when you cross back into Ontario with >2 bottles? Or some other method?
I don’t know that there’s any harm—the brokers I’ve mentioned are relatively common knowledge to wine folks up here. However, I’ve removed and edited the post. What would be your concern, Victor? Just interested…
With my friends, I’m lucky to have two of my besties in Cleveland who come into town about 4-5 times a year. They bring 2 bottles back each on each trip and I give them a bottle out of a case as a thank you. The other friend I usually cellar stuff down there for consumption on stateside trips that I make. And, of course, yes, I often bring back bottles when I’m visiting them.
I always declare everything I’m bringing over. Every time.
Isn’t it great to live in a province that aside from taxes, wants to run a retail/wholesale business that they are ill equipped to do simply to keep the profits that a private individual should be entitled? I have not noticed a reduction in alcohol abuse due to the control exercised by the government. I live just across the pond in Pennsylvania and we have slowly been trying to wrestle control of alcohol sales away from the state for decades. I only wish firearm sales could be state regulated to the same degree. If only the framers of our constitution added an additional amendment that citizens right to purchase wine freely should not be infringed, we might have a saner system. Thank God the border guys prevent any more than two bottles crossing at a time. Imagine the chaos that would result if the allowed a whole case!!!
I think I agree and I’ve always thought that privatization was the way to go but it would also come with a lot of tradeoffs. I’m less sure of it now (for Quebec that is where it’s been this way forever). There are some distinct advantages to the current model.
Looking at SAQ in Quebec, the sheer amount of products available is staggering. I have yet to find a broader selection elsewhere. We get highly allocated and sought-after wines at very good price. Although, that is mostly true for expensive bottles (over 50$). You have to be lucky to get those bottles in a lottery but that is also very democratic as anybody can get them. You can return faulty bottles. And even though the new policy says it’s 1 or 2 years after purchase date, you can still come back with a bottle you bought many years ago and they will take it back if the SKU is still active. They also have good to great customer service and a lot of locations. The website is also pretty decent.
What I would like to see Quebec do is allow private import agencies to sell by the bottle (rather than by the case) and allow individuals to resale to other individuals.
I’m sure I would find a lot of advantages to privatization as well but I’m less convinced that I used to be that it’s the answer to all woes.
Now that I’m in France, I’ll get all the good side of it but I’m already seeing how hard it’ll be to continue to buy the South-African wines I enjoy.
Hi Chris! Welcome to the madness that is trying to drink well in Ontario! Here are my notes, on each possible approach I know of:
I buy a lot at the SAQ and bring it back with me, on a road trip once or twice a year. Prices, selection and availability are all generally superior to the LCBO.
I buy a little directly from agents. Drawbacks are you have to buy by the case, prices are still LCBO style prices (still comes through the same system), and many agents save the good stuff for their best clients (friends, important people, and people who spent loads of money on their cheap stuff).
Some people have wine sent from the US to a friend in Alberta, who then receives it (duty is far lower there), and then forwards it on to them. I don’t have a suitable person I know.
Some people order wine from Alberta-based retailers who are willing to ship to Ontario. Pricing isn’t really all that much better, but availability can be
Some have wine sent to a shipping box in Buffalo or Niagara Falls, NY. People I’ve spoken to don’t necessarily worry about having it be a formal wine storage facility but are okay with a location that at least keeps packages climate controlled (standard AC and heat). You then need to drive the wine over the border (45L limit per person), declare it and be prepared to pay duty (~70% on the value). You won’t have any duty free exemption. Some people might work with a retailer to produce a receipt that shows the wine at a reduced value in order to minimize the duties owed.
The approach I take is to collect wine in my travels. When visiting the US or Europe I’ll bring back ~6 bottles per person (myself or my wife). I’ll work with local retailers in advance to source things I’m after (wines with age, rare wines, wines that never seem to make it to Ontario at all), and either pick it up on my trip, or have it shipped to the hotel I’ll be staying at. I’ll always be gone over 48 hours so I get 2 bottle per person duty free. So I’m prepared to pay duty on only the bottles over the limit (those can of course be the cheapest of what you’ve bought). But if arriving by air I find I am almost always waved through with 6 bottles and don’t owe any duty. Land borders I think they’re a little more strict, occasionally waving me through, but sometimes charging duty. In a non-covid world I was doing about ~10 trips per year that I could bring wine back, so about 60 bottles a year, with minimal duty. But if you don’t travel outside the country as much as I had been that may not work as well for you.
Always declare exactly how many bottles you have. You can get yourself in the most trouble by not declaring accurately.
SAQ is the counter example to monopolies suck. The issue with KGBO is they don’t have wine people setting direction. I think if just want to get a bottle of Hendricks they have good coverage of stores and selection of those kinds of brands
As I said in the other thread I am not in favour of privatisation under this regime. It would not go well for consumers once all their friends have lined their pockets. Private monopolies or oligopolies are not always better than public. But high end / niche / artisanal wines beers spirits etc cry out for small private boutique retailers.
Some agents are now doing btb on some wines and or preset mixed cases. Yes prices are not less than LCBO (words chosen carefully ). Some restaurants had / have bottle shops with take out / delivery.
Okanagan wineries ship direct. First time we did that the neighbours were concerned when they saw the ATS van (medical supplies, refrigerated) pull up lol.
Agree on customs. I have never paid on wines carried with me, up to six or eight bottles between the two of us. The constraint is carry on lol.
I agree about not wanting to privatize anything under our current government. I’m enjoying all of the bottle shops that have sprung up due to Covid and hope that they are made permanent. It’s great trying just one bottle of something new without having to commit to a case. Other provinces allow for private wine stores in addition to the the government run ones which I would like to see here.
I buy/sell and trade with other wine collectors. That is more or less the only viable source for aged wines.
Auctions, there are some benefit auctions held and sometimes you might just get lucky. I usually don’t.
There are some retail stores in AB which offer discounts during the year and are worthwhile to follow.
Whenever you visit different provinces you could find some nice deals. I found some of the lowest prices for French wines in Newfoundland and Labrador.
You can import wines from the US to AB at low duties and then have it shipped to you. I have never done this even though I have someone in AB. Just don’t want to bother them.
I have satellite cellars in Buffalo and Europe which allows me to purchase more desirable wines at significantly lower prices. Whenever I travel I bring some bottles back.