Retailer check: EmpireWine.com

[MikeL238]

Empirewine or Empire State Wine?

[Max_S1]

As someone who has had great experiences with EmpireWine, this seems unusual. I could understand if they had an offline order that wasn’t logged. Either way, it sounds like they did more or less try to make it right by offering an apology and one of the 3 ordered bottles at least.

[Michae1_P0wers]

I have bought from EmpireWine.com many (20+) times. Generally, they are pretty quick to ship and accurate. I have noticed during COVID they seem to be swamped and a little slower.

On occasion I’ve had what you described happen, although I haven’t bought something like DRC from them. The one that sticks out to me was 2016 Chiara Boschis Via Nuova, which had just gotten 100 pts from AG. I ordered 4 and they ended up only having 3. It was about $90 and I figured I was lucky to get any at that price, so I didn’t sweat it. I can see how you’re disappointed, but I think unfortunately many wine websites aren’t run with the kind of precision many of us would like.

I’ve had great experiences with Empire (none with ESOW). Obviously no one and no inventory system is perfect, but overall I think Empire is a very good retailer.

Edited to add that upon rereading I see that the OP was talking about Empire and not ESOW. Had misread another comment in the thread as the OP’s. Still, I’ve had nothing but good dealings with Empire in the past.

[John_Morris]

I’m not that sympathetic. We’ve all experienced this. Unless the retailer has a record of offering things it doesn’t have (which a few do), I give them a pass. Retail inventory systems are never perfect. Sometimes that works in your favor when they stumble on a gem that isn’t listed; sometimes you lose when bottles exist only on the system.

Their responses were courteous, but it sounds like you want them to fall all over themselves and beg for forgiveness and/or deliver something they don’t have.

FYI, I don’t think you’ve got any legal claim here. As I (dimly) recall from first year contracts, a retailer’s “offer” is just an invitation to an offer under the law. The customer’s order is the offer (to buy) in legal terms. There’s no contract until the retailer accepts the order/offer.

When does it become a contract? When credit card is charged?

Since some consideration is required for a contract, probably when the charge is made. But we should hear from someone who is still licensed to practice. It’s been a long time since first-year contracts in my case.

[John_Morris]

I’m sorry but I don’t buy the excuses of inventory. Just like Andrew said he saw the inventory change on the site. Anyone who has an e-comm site has real time inventory systems unless it’s Ol Pappy with his ledger but I doubt you’re buying RSV DRC from him.

But the tally on the system may not correspond to reality. Any retailer will tell you that what’s on the shelf never accords exactly with the inventory system. As I said above, I’ve had that work both ways. I’ve ordered the last bottle shown and then been told that they found three bottles in case I want more.

[Victor_Hong]

Also remember that stores sell wine in many different ways - online orders, email, phone, in person, even text. Not all of those avenues can be reflected immediately in an online system. I’m sure with highly allocated wines it’s common to have to adjust some people’s requests.

It’s happened to me many times. It’s disappointing, but I remind myself that the wine wasn’t actually mine yet. So I haven’t lost anything.

Agreed.

[Victor_Hong]

Well, if Victor thinks it’s acceptable customer service…

If you want to see bad customer service (and food), visit my shop in the Empire City.

I would tell Empire Wine to beware of some shoppers.

[HoosJustinG]

What should’ve happened is a reply of “We had an offline buyer for some of the bottles which the guy who entered the bottles into inventory forgot to account for. Normally this is not an issue but since DRC is highly sought after, it was unfortunately an issue in this case as you bought it online before an audit caught the mistake. We sincerely apologize, but as I’m sure you understand DRC wines are highly allocated and I simply can’t get more to fulfill your order. By way of apology please use coupon code IMSORRY15 to take 15% off any other wine you may be looking at.”

And done. The fact that they’re obfuscating here is not a federal offense, but they’re not “covering themselves in glory” with regard to customer service, either…

[Victor_Hong]

What should’ve happened is a reply of “We had an offline buyer for some of the bottles which the guy who entered the bottles into inventory forgot to account for. Normally this is not an issue but since DRC is highly sought after, it was unfortunately an issue in this case as you bought it online before an audit caught the mistake. We sincerely apologize, but as I’m sure you understand DRC wines are highly allocated and I simply can’t get more to fulfill your order. By way of apology please use coupon code IMSORRY15 to take 15% off any other wine you may be looking at.”

And done. The fact that they’re obfuscating here is not a federal offense, but they’re not “covering themselves in glory” with regard to customer service, either…

The poster may be been the second online shopper ordering the wine.

[williamwhelan]

Feels like the retailer saying something as simple as, “We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience, but…” would have gone a long way. I don’t see a “sorry” or “apologize” in there at all.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Karen, meet Karen.

Different Andrew.

Apologies. No excuse for not checking.

[Jonathan_Jaggers]

I certainly understand the disappointment. I’ve had that similar inventory errors happen with other wine retailers (not with Empire, I’ve had good experiences with them).

However, I’m not sure what you wanted them to do at the point when they only had 1 bottle left to offer you & why you kept pressing to try to make them spin 2 more out of thin air.

[John_S]

I think most of us have had this happen with any online order of a scarce bottle. Personally I never trust the web inventory of stuff like that but it does not excuse the merchants error. With items like this I call before placing the order and verify the price and quantity. I will even place the order with the salesperson on the phone and ask his/her name. I have never had an inventory mess up with this approach but 2/3 times I called to check before the order it was quickly determined the wine was not in stock at the qty I wanted as was shown on the web site. Once I started doing this it solved similar issues. Again not blaming anyone here or saying this is the way things should done but offering my solution to a super common wine buying issue.

[Victor_Hong]

I certainly understand the disappointment. I’ve had that similar inventory errors happen with other wine retailers (not with Empire, I’ve had good experiences with them).

However, I’m not sure what you wanted them to do at the point when they only had 1 bottle left to offer you & why you kept pressing to try to make them spin 2 more out of thin air.

Empire should have ordered two more bottles from Acker Merrall or Rudy Kurniawan.

[AndyK]

Suggesting that Vinous might have terminated the access you paid for without notification is ridiculous. Do you really think your opinion on this non-Vinous forum is so influential the Vinous team can’t handle it?

Why wasn’t waiting a few hours or days for a response an option? This does not warrant a thread on a public forum with a misleading title based on zero evidence. I appreciate most of your contributions here, Mark, but this gets you the “Karen of the day” award

I think the award has passed on to you.

This is getting more and more embarrassing for you, Mark…

[ybarselah]

OP is not a customer worth having, IMO. The emails confirm this. I would never ever attempt to come to this conclusion based on a similar thread, but OP provides the verbatim evidence.

I still cannot believe that after a million similar threads, folks absolutely refuse to pick up the phone and order from a human being that can tell you right then and there if the wine is available. You’re not buying socks on amazon. if your expectations are the same, then you need to manage them accordingly if your desire is to actually procure wine, as opposed to complaining online.

[Andrew_K]

I appreciate all the sincere and considerate responses regardless of whether you agree with me.

William really hit the nail on the head. An actual apology and honesty about what happened is really all I was looking for. They never even took blame for doing anything wrong let alone apologized for the error. And then of course canceling my order out of spite because I had the audacity to question their benevolence of offering me 1 bottle was the icing on the cake.

I don’t really need the wine, I have some of this cuvée anyway, and at this point I’m happy I have $4800 back in my pocket instead of in theirs.

[Victor_Hong]

I appreciate all the sincere and considerate responses regardless of whether you agree with me.

William really hit the nail on the head. An actual apology and honesty about what happened is really all I was looking for. They never even took blame for doing anything wrong let alone apologized for the error. And then of course canceling my order out of spite because I had the audacity to question their benevolence of offering me 1 bottle was the icing on the cake.

I don’t really need the wine, I have some of this cuvée anyway, and at this point I’m happy I have $4800 back in my pocket instead of in theirs.

Based on your first post, the merchant offered all which it had. No audacity was necessary. Just truth.

[JViolini]

You’re not buying socks on amazon.

95% of wine shops with a website will have real time inventory. So it’s not, but it’s the same technology.


12:00 You call
12:05 End BSing and hang up
12:10 Manual Order can’t be processed, no inventory

The issue is that at 12:04 someone went online and bought them. Now you as a retailer have to decide…

[MChang]

I feel like this has happened to me a lot lately with online inventory which is supposedly real time. Probably 3-4x in the last couple months I’ve had orders canceled or quantities decreased from orders typically of popular wines at good prices: 14 rsv (from a different vendor) 15 Hudelot cv and 96 Krug.