Rhys 2016 Pricing

[Markus_S]

I still ordered a (too me) significant amount, but instead of going all in, I skipped all Bearwallow (Chard and Pinot, which didn’t impress enough last Sunday to justify the higher pricing, especially as everything else and more interesting moves up in price) and focused only on the bottles I care for the most (Home, Skyline, Syrah, a bit of Procupine).

So how different is the Porcupine from the Bearwallow? They are adjacent vineyards from what it sounds like and I can’t imagine them being that dissimilar. Haven’t been able to try one yet.

[Kevin_Harvey]

I realize that price increases are bad news but thought I could explain a bit about ours. In making the change to estate appellation wines under the Alesia label, one of our goals was to raise quality. In order to do that we are producing less Rhys vineyard designated wine. For example Bearwallow Pinot is now half the size that it has been in the past. The barrels that would have been used for Bearwallow are now in our Alesia Anderson Valley (made entirely from Bearwallow estate fruit) and offered at $45/btl minus case discounting. Additionally, all of our pricing includes shipping which is easily overlooked. Lastly, our price increase is not keeping up with our cost increases. Unfortunately our farming approach is very costly and hands on. These costs have tripled in the last 10 years.
I don’t expect that I can fully convince everyone but I wanted to provide some background.

I appreciate your response and fully understand the rational. However, I’m sure you can appreciate that 25-30% increases are a surprise, even in this day and age. I’m curious, what was the 2014, 2015 and 2016 case production for the Porcupine and Skyline pinots? Did they decrease as well? Thanks

I will be buying as I love the wines…just need to determine how much…thanks

Thanks Ross. And yes I do understand the $30 change in Skyline was steep. In hindsight, we should have made that increase more gradual over time. That said, I do believe the secondary market price is likely to move commensurate with our pricing.

Skyline production varies from zero (as in 2015) to about the level of the 2016, so production of Skyline was not down this year. Porcupine Hill is also steady in 2016.

[R_Frankel]

Price increases will never be greeted happily, so these reactions are unsurprising. But does anyone doubt that Rhys has earned similar value to other premium (>$100) producers of CA Pinot. I’m thinking of folks like Kistler, Kosta Browne, Williams Selyem, and Marcassin. I’m just glad that so much absolutely excellent US Pinot remains in a lower price band.

[Kevin_Harvey]

Kevin,

Congratulations on your wildly successful business. There should be no surprise that price increases were coming. Correct me if I’m wrong, but your Aeris Carricante debut vintage sold out in hours, and I believe it is the most expensive example of this wine on the planet? Your '13 Hillsides also sold out in hours (or was it minutes?). Rising costs notwithstanding, it can only be a logical business decision to straddle pricing and demand for optimal returns. If the estate wines are that much better from stricter selection, even more justification. I am curious how you factored keeping the Home vineyard price unchanged?

This is only my opinion, but it seems to me that the Skyline is now fully priced, and there may be no advantage to buying direct vs. from retail later on. My palate seems to appreciate the Porcupine Hill more than the Skyline, in general, but certainly with more age on the bottles this could change.

What percentage of total cost is represented by the farming you mentioned? I’d be curious to hear more about why they have tripled, and what you are or can do to control them going forward.

No doubt similar increases may be expected for future releases?

Regards,

Craig,
Thank you for the kind words. Rhys has been successful beyond my wildest dreams from a wine quality, reception and personal enjoyment standpoint. That said, I still fund our growth and operations even 18 years in.

I mentioned this above, but I expect that Skyline secondary market pricing will move in concert with our pricing. I do think we could have had a better plan for that particular price increase.

Our farming costs are well over half of our non-variable costs (meaning corks, bottles etc). I know that we run at the very high end of cost per acre in CA Pinot. This is due to many factors. Our mountainous slopes mean that our vineyards require a great deal of hand work and our locations have higher hourly labor costs. Also our farming protocol and strict organics are very expensive. The tripling in cost is directly due to sharp increase in labor direct costs and benefits. I don’t begrudge our workers a bit, but this is by far our biggest cost in running the business. I am hopeful that this upward spiral will level off.
The sharpest price increases were in this release and some wines are not going up (such as the Home). We haven’t raised prices in 4 years so I would hope we don’t need to repeat this painful exercise anytime soon!

[Kevin_Harvey]

Price increases will never be greeted happily, so these reactions are unsurprising. But does anyone doubt that Rhys has earned similar value to other premium (>$100) producers of CA Pinot. I’m thinking of folks like Kistler, Kosta Browne, Williams Selyem, and Marcassin. I’m just glad that so much absolutely excellent US Pinot remains in a lower price band.

Rich,
Thank you, I really appreciate you pointing that out.

[AndyK]

I still ordered a (too me) significant amount, but instead of going all in, I skipped all Bearwallow (Chard and Pinot, which didn’t impress enough last Sunday to justify the higher pricing, especially as everything else and more interesting moves up in price) and focused only on the bottles I care for the most (Home, Skyline, Syrah, a bit of Procupine).

So how different is the Porcupine from the Bearwallow? They are adjacent vineyards from what it sounds like and I can’t imagine them being that dissimilar. Haven’t been able to try one yet.

My understanding is that Procupine is a part of Bearwallow that’s planted denser than the rest of the hill, but I could be wrong…

I tasted them side by side last Sunday at the Rhys event. The Bearwallow was a nice wine, clear step up from the Alesia, but had a bit more immediate red fruit character compared to the Procupine (more dark fruit) and seemed less deep/complex. But take this with a grain of salt, I focused more on the company/pizza/cave tour at the event and didn’t take any serious notes
But I also found in the past that there is a distinct difference between the two and consistently prefer the Procupine by some margin. With the pricing increases, I decided to only get a couple of the latter and skip Bearwallow altogether, but it’s a shame because the Bearwallow is drinking very nicely and it’s always interesting to taste them side by side (or like last year, have the option to taste all three Bearwallows: regular Rhys + Procupine plus Rivers-Marie’s version). But I couldn’t justify the total cost anymore

[J_e_s_s_e_C]

Can anyone who has tasted both comment on the 2016 bearwallow chard vs 2015? I really liked the 2015’s I had from my sampler pack and as expected, there is still a relatively small number of notes on cellartracker for the 2016.

Any new thoughts on the Pajaro chard (since last release thread) would also be appreciated, as I passed on the sampler this time around due to the case (rather than 6 bottle) quantity and Pajaro being a relative unknown to me. Thanks!

[larry_schaffer]

Kevin,

Kudos for getting on here and discussing a potentially ‘challenging’ subject and doing so as transparently as possible.

Cheers.

[Fred_Bower]

Am I correct in my interpretation of the writeup that there will be no “Hillside” designates for the 2015 vintage, but will be both Alpine and Horseshoe Hillside Pinot Noir for 2016? Would those be offered next year about when the past Hillside offerings went out?

I still think I’m buying more Rhys than I am consuming, but I’m working to get to homeostasis via more frequent consumption, not reduced acquisition. The inbound shipments this week may temper my enthusiasm, as cellar space has gotten pretty tight and there’s a lot of Rhys in there.

I am looking forward to trying the Caricante.

Cheers,
fred

[David_Bu3ker]

Bummed at the low allocations of Horseshoe Syrah (my favorite Rhys wine), but Mother Nature is a capricious gal. I cut back a little due to many factors, but had to grab the Horseshoe.

[Andrew_M_c_C_a_b_e]

This is my first allocation. Got all 4 of the Bearwallow and one Porcupine. Wishlisting the Syrah. The price does seem a bit steep but I am not suprised with the rising labor costs. Looking forward to trying the wines.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Kevin,

I miss you posting Burg notes. I know you have a business to run but can you come back please?

Cheers
Jeremy

[Larry_Link]

Kevin,

Did you make a 2015 Skyline Pinot? I don’t show any ordered and I’m wondering if I just whiffed on it?

[Kevin_Harvey]

Kevin,

Did you make a 2015 Skyline Pinot? I don’t show any ordered and I’m wondering if I just whiffed on it?

Larry,
We had no 2015 Skyline so you did no whiff! Mother nature did not cooperate…

[Kevin_Harvey]

Kevin,

I miss you posting Burg notes. I know you have a business to run but can you come back please?

Cheers
Jeremy

Jeremy,
It’s great to hear from you. I always look forward to reading about your exploits!
As you know I love Burgundy. And I would love to post on the bottles I drink, but now that I am a producer I don’t feel comfortable posting my “unvarnished” thoughts. I also have a few friends in Burgundy and don’t want to lose them!

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Hi Kevin,

Even your ‘varnished’ thoughts would add value to the board. You’ve already lost your Burgundian friends by producing a Carricante.

It is great to see you enjoying good success. You have certainly worked hard.

Best Regards
Jeremy

[Kevin_Harvey]

Am I correct in my interpretation of the writeup that there will be no “Hillside” designates for the 2015 vintage, but will be both Alpine and Horseshoe Hillside Pinot Noir for 2016? Would those be offered next year about when the past Hillside offerings went out?

I still think I’m buying more Rhys than I am consuming, but I’m working to get to homeostasis via more frequent consumption, not reduced acquisition. The inbound shipments this week may temper my enthusiasm, as cellar space has gotten pretty tight and there’s a lot of Rhys in there.

I am looking forward to trying the Caricante.

Cheers,
fred

Thanks Fred. Yes, there are no Hillsides in 2015 but we do plan to offer the 2016s in August 2019.
Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy the Carricante! We poured the 2015 Aeris Etna Bianco Superiore at our recent pickup day and I thought it was showing extremely well. We have learned that Carricante really blossoms after a couple of years in bottle so we plan to hold the release of our first California Carricante, the 2017 from Centennial Mtn in Sonoma, until Fall 2020.

[Kevin_Harvey]

You’ve already lost your Burgundian friends by producing a Carricante.

Ha! I have even forced a few Burgundian friends try it and reluctantly they admitted to quite liking it!

[Alan_Rath]

Can anyone who has tasted both comment on the 2016 bearwallow chard vs 2015? I really liked the 2015’s I had from my sampler pack and as expected, there is still a relatively small number of notes on cellartracker for the 2016.

Jesse, looking at my notes year over year, and also noting the vintage differences (15 warmer, 16 more even without the heat spikes) I’d describe 15 in general as richer and more opulent, with 16 being a little more taut and mineral - but still the trademark Rhys intensity and slight honey character. I really liked the 16 bearwallow chard, and the alpine chard is fabulous.

[Al_Osterheld]

Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy the Carricante! We poured the 2015 Aeris Etna Bianco Superiore at our recent pickup day and I thought it was showing extremely well. We have learned that Carricante really blossoms after a couple of years in bottle so we plan to hold the release of our first California Carricante, the 2017 from Centennial Mtn in Sonoma, until Fall 2020.

I thought the 2015 Aeris Etna Bianco Superiore was the best wine poured at the pickup day last weekend, much more open than the 2014 when it was released, and really showing well.

-Al