This looks great and I am looking forward to it.
Mags sound great for this special bottling… Hope I can get my hands on some!
I am glad to hear it will receive the same oak treatment to really allow these to stand out for what they are, special blocks in special years.
Gary
OK, that boggles the mind. We had 2010 Horseshoe Pinot Noir last night with seared filet of salmon and we were all enamored with the wine. I had decanted it three hours prior, and on this night it really delivered.
Ah yes, I remember that now.
I never am much of an Alpine fan.
All in
Several of us know you are not much of an Alpine fan. I loved how your TN’s show my advanced apology for those flights.
Me on the other hand, like Alpine much more than Bearwallow…
We really need to have the Rhys @ PDH Part Deux soon…
Exciting to read about the new Hillside wines, though I am a little surprised to hear that they may be priced above Swan and Skyline in their first vintage. ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
But great that Rhys continues to push the envelope on quality! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Kevin - I had my first bottle of '06 Alpine Hillside about six months ago and I thought it was excellent, but, as you wrote, it is just entering its drinking window. I have had the regular '06 Alpine bottling on a few occasions and it is also terrific. I Haven’t had any '07 Alpine or Alpine Hillsides yet but plan on taking a peek this year.
One other question about pricing. I would be the first to say that you should charge any price you’d like for the Alpine and Horseshoe Hillside, but I was wondering how this move will affect the price of the regular Alpine and Horseshoe bottlings in the years that the Hillside is made since those bottlings would now not contain the “best” juice from the vineyards, especially since prices have understandably risen since the '06 and '07 vintages.
Thanks.
Jeff,
Before bottling the Hillsides we believe that the decision must not compromise the regular Alpine or Horseshoe bottlings. This is another reason that we have not bottled a “Hillside” designated wine in the last 6 vintages. In 2013 the Hillsides would have comprised less than 12% of the regular bottling and would have been essentially lost since we could not taste their inclusion or subtraction in the larger bottlings. In some other lower production but high quality years this would not have been the case.
To be frank, I think our Alpine and Horseshoe Pinots are quite under-priced in today’s market. I realize that statement will not be popular but I would like to remain straightforward and transparent with our customers.
To be frank, I think our Alpine and Horseshoe Pinots are quite under-priced in today’s market
Interesting comment Kevin. When you say under priced, what is your benchmark?
Sebastian,
Like most discussion of quality and value, it is very possible for two reasonable people to disagree. I still buy quite a bit of wine so I think that keeps me fairly apprised of the market (For example over the 15 years that I have invested in Rhys, my favorite Burgundies have essentially tripled in price). I also buy and survey the top-end of CA Pinot and look for pricing on wines of similar quality, demand and cost of production. For Rhys comparisons, I do not look at negociant bottlings (unless we are evaluating the price of Alesia) as the cost structure is quite a bit lower to produce those bottles. In fact, we can buy a ton of fruit for a lower cost per ton than it costs us to farm it on our estate sites (and of course farming cost alone don’t include any amortization of the fairly massive costs of planting a vineyard these days). At the end of the day, it’s always important to factor supply and demand and our own perception of quality in the bottle and a reasonable person might disagree with our conclusions on that second point. By construction Rhys is extraordinarily expensive to operate and I can only hope that enough people agree with our pricing so that we can run the business sustainably in the long run.
I don’t think it matters much what Kevin says here. If there are a bunch of people left on the waiting list after the Alpine and Horseshoe are sold, then they are priced competitively.
There should be plenty of people to vouch for Skyline and Swan’s pricing since they were just turned down for wish list requests. You can bet the same will be the case with the Hillside bottlings. I suppose Rhys could find a price where it doesn’t happen but I don’t expect that.
Kevin - I have no issues with any of this and obviously the market will determine what is considered a reasonable price. I think anyone here would agree that the pricing needs to be at a level that will sustain the business in the long run. I just hope that level will allow me to remain a customer.
Russ,
I very much hope that as well. We have a phenomenal customer base and I hate the idea of pricing them out. For that reason, (and I realize some may disagree) I try to keep some of our wine “under-priced”. The strange thing is that we do not see as much demand for “value” bottlings as I would expect. On a relative basis demand was not as strong for the 2012 San Mateo which at $45 including shipping offered the most value of any bottling we make. Over time I would hope to see the highest demand for a wine like Bearwallow (which I am committed to keep at $59). By any measure this wine is under-priced (as noted above two neighbors price their wine at $75-$100 and one is buying fruit) so I hope our pricing will allow customers to find bottlings that offer value at the prices they can afford.
Kevin,
I really appreciate that you keep a couple of wines at somewhat easier price points. Right now I can still justify the higher priced bottlings, but I relish the thought of at least being able to trade down a little should I need to. I adore the San Mateo, and the 375s are essentially a mid-week house wine for me. Bearwallow lost out this year as I committed $$$ to Skyline and Swan Terrace. Purely a budget consideration rather than a quality judgement.
I’m generally not a fan of appellation blends but the 2012 San Mateo was very good. I’d be happy to buy a few more if they didn’t sell out.
Thanks for your candid response. I agree that the wines(Alpine & Horseshoe) are under priced compared to similar quality CA PN. I also agree that higher Burgundy prices also pulls up quality PN prices. I also think that it is not a 1/1 ratio as CA PN does not have the scarcity value and vineyards have not yet attained the “ultra premium” status. Also, within CA there are plenty of substitutes due to the size of the region and favorable climate. Thus top CA PN demand is not as “inelastic” as Burgundy. Finally, I think that within the mailing list “structure” it makes sense to keep it under priced. If you don’t think you are getting value out of being a “member” of the list then chances are you will see move to the next list or retail. I am sure, as you move your prices, you closely watch your attrition rates. We see it all the time in this board; people dropping out of lists as they find all the wine from the list they want at auction, at retail or at CC. All at or below release. BTW, I think you guys make great wines.
Cheers
Kevin, if the Hillsides will be $100+, is it fair to assume Skyline and Swan Terrace will see a price increase?
Gary,
It’s possible but we have not yet made any final decisions on 2013 pricing. Given that the Hillsides will only be made 3-5 times a decade, I think their pricing can be somewhat independent of the rest of our lineup.
When I look at the price of top Pinot Noir bottlings from ‘cult’ Sonoma Coast and other region’s producers, I agree that Rhys’s prices are more than reasonable. However I would not call them underpriced. I would call the ‘cult’ producers overpriced.
IMO there are a lot of fine Burgundies that are priced competitively with entry-level Rhys wines, in my case almost entirely Cote de Beaune as I rarely splurge for Cote de Nuits (IMO at the Premier Cru level Cote de Nuits is 50 - 100% more expensive while quality is barely if at all better). They get their share of my Pinot dollar, along with Rhys and a very few other California producers.
I have no problem with Kevin making top bottlings that cross the 3 figure threshhold. If allocated, I will probably buy, probably in magnum. I am very grateful to Kevin for bottling in 375s. I find myself gravitating towards 375s and 1.5s… 375s for evenings at home, 1.5s for company and groups. The only problem with Rhys magnums is my projected lifespan, but somebody will drink them.
Kevin and Jeff have done wonders to improve the quality of California Pinot Noir in general, and they are to be commended for bringing new attention to the Santa Cruz Mountains, probably California’s best overall terroir (OK, Napa is pretty good for Cabernet).
Dan Kravitz
I haven’t had any of the more recent Alpines (my fault, didn’t buy enough so my allocations got cut, I stopped buying and was dropped), but I’ve always found the Alpine compelling. Like Jay, it’s not been my favorite of the Rhys as I’m more of an RSV than Richebourg guy. But Alpine has the depth and density that reminds me of Richebourg. And the '06 and '07 Hillsides were a step up. Also loved that they bottle the Swan Terrace plot separately as it’s Alpine but has very different characteristics (and is my favorite Rhys bottling). I haven’t opened a Hillside in a few years, they were way too young, so given Kevin’s comments, maybe I’ll check in on an '06.
Cheers,
-Robert