Terroir, Neal. Duh. 
I picked up a load of white oak when I was building my cellar racks and it reeked of Dill-pickle whatever smell. I’ve cut (with a chainsaw) plenty of post oak and burr oak that didn’t have any of that smell.
Brilliant idea, Neal. I have two large citrus trees in my backyard, planted in the '50s or '60s. Old roots reaching down into the deep, dark, loamy clay soil found on my lakeside. Part of my yard is fill from the deep dark bottom of the lake. I’m debating taking the trees down. We can use them for our barrels, which of course will impart that wonderful wet earth and citrus notes that I love in my wine, unlike pickles and vanilla.
![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
It’s the coconut in American oak I find distinctive more than the dill. But whatever causes it, it is in new American oak–sometimes not all the time–and never, in my experience, in French oak, which sufficiently offends me with its vanilla, in any case.
While certainly not the norm, I picked up a very distinct note of coconut in, of all things, a 1989 Petrus. Shared that bottle with a buddy of mine, a few glasses each, and it was definitely part of the fabric of that incredibly wonderful, somewhat exotic wine. Whatever imparted that note - and I had assumed a little toast to the French oak - it worked in this complex, layered wine.
100% new oak at that…
Actually, American oak is a different species with quite different characteristics than the European oaks:
The species of oak typically used for American oak production is the Quercus alba which is a white oak species that is characterized by its relatively fast growth, wider grains and lower wood tannins. It is found in most of the Eastern United States as well as Missouri, Minnesota and Wisconsin where many wine barrels are from. In Oregon the Quercus garryana white oak has started to gain usage due to its closer similarities to European oak.
In France, both the Quercus robur (common oak) and Quercus petraea (white oak) are considered apt for wine making, however, the latter is considered far superior for its finer grain and richer contribution of aromatic components like vanillin and its derivates, methyl-octalactone and tannins, as well as phenols and volatile aldehydes… The tighter grain of French oak allows for a more gradual integration of flavors in the wine.
Italian winemakers have had a long history of using Slavonian oak from the Quercus robur which is known for its tight grain, low aromatics and medium level tannins.
American oak tends to be more intensely flavored than French oak with more sweet and vanilla overtones due to the American oak having two to four times as many lactones. Winemakers choose American oak typically for bold, powerful reds, base wines for “assemblage”, or for warm climate Chardonnays. Besides being derived from different species, a major difference between American and French oak comes from the preparation of the wood. The tighter grain and less watertight nature of French oak obliges coopers to split the wood along the grain. …
Since French oak must be split, only 20 to 25% of the tree can be utilized; American oak may be serrated, which makes it at least twice as economical. Its more pronounced oxidation and a quicker release of aromas help wines to lose their astringency and harshness faster; which makes this the wood of choice for shorter maturations - six to ten months. Because of American oak’s modest tannin contribution, the perfect first fill is a wine with abundant tannins and good texture; it allows the fruit to interact harmoniously with the wood, which contributes a wide array of complex aromas and soft, yet very palatable tannins.
French oak, on the other hand, generates silky and transparent tannins, which transmit a sensation of light sweetness combined with fruity flavors that persist in the mouth. Spices and toasted almond are noteworthy, combined with flavors of ripe red fruit in red wines, and notes of peach, exotic fruits and floral aromas like jasmine and rose in whites, depending on the grape variety employed.
The dill character comes from kiln dried oak, ie. whiskey barrels. Air drying allows that character to dissipate away.
I don’t know all the factors with oak, but preferred char level is generally very narrow. Where the oak is grown can effect the pore size (due, in part at least, to growth rate) and other characteristics. Some French oak from different forests with the same pore size can show more similarly than different pore size from the same forest. (Coopers got busted for falsely claiming forest, ie. Nevers, when they were just marketing it that way, and actually “branding” the different lines by character.) I think cooperage techniques play a massive role. Some French oak is horribly bold and seems to ruin most wines. (cf. Byington Winery) While a few others are wonderfully supportive of the fruit, just adding subtle spice and a little structure, while 100% new (ie. Seguin-Morreau, Camus).
Mel will comment tomorrow…
Uh-oh. Sh!t just got real
We’re going to need some buttered popcorn!
And Rombauer!
I’ll save Mel repeating himself. He explains it all on his website:
[/quote]
This is why I have issues with so many Spanish wines that use American oak…
Just when it was getting good…intermission…
![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
The “winemaking” includes a bunch of toasty, sweet new oak. Maybe they do need it, who would know?
Wow, that sounds awful. I had understood that Ridge aimed for a different audience.
The 2013 Estate Cab winemaker notes say “exotic barrel space” and “toasted oak”. That’s about right from the couple of bottles I have tried, granted at this youthful stage. He has no reference to oak notes in his 2013 Montebello, but that wine sees 98% new American oak.
The 2009 winemaker notes makes no mention of oak. This is the bottle that got me to start going deep on this Cab. The 2008 was ok. I need to pop one from my stash to see how it is showing.
I am not sure if I have anything original to offer here, but here goes.
I have known Paul Draper and Ridge wines since the mid '70s. Paul has always felt that if he could get properly seasoned air dried American barrels he would be a happy camper. He had a deal with a cooperage in the Midwest, or so he thought, to provide this kind of barrel. Unfortunately, their lords and masters, a large distilled spirits company, needed all the older wood so Paul got left holding the bag.
Known business associates of mine bought an American oak cooperage and immediately put money into air drying the wood longer. I put them together with Paul and they have been working together since the early part of this century.
One point about American oak: the longer you season the wood, the fewer the lactones, whereas the opposite seems to be true with French oak. This is an area that needs to be studied more.
Ridge bought from me, or at least until i retired, three or four French oak barrels every year just to torture me on the chance they would get me and my worn out palate up to the winery for a tasting. Tastings of different barrels at Ridge can be quite difficult as sometimes the wine is so intense it’s hard to tell anything.
As I prefer my Ridge wines to be at least fifteen top twenty years old, I cannot say much about recent offerings.
Personally for Zinfandel, I prefer 20% new French or Hungarian oak. This is esp true if the wine is to be drunk young. I suppose Paul and Eric have made enough wonderful Zins they can do whatever they darn well please. I might be able to argue the Monte bello would be even better with more french oak, but let’s face it: who would turn down a glass of 20 yo Monte Bello??
And the less Ridge others drink the more for me.
Sounds like Mel is singing my music, would love to try Ridge in French.
I’ll still grab a case of the 2015 Geyserville and will sample the 2014 Cab and 2015 Lytton, first.