Roughing it with Rougeard: A last meal of sorts

Chris_Kissack · October 7, 2016, 11:18am

The only domaine I think of as having a cult following in the world of Cab Franc is Clos Rougeard. My comment referred to the Loire in general, and other vignerons with a cult following, e.g. Richard Leroy, Olivier Cousin, Nicolas Joly, Mark Angeli and the like.

Roches Neuves comes close though, and the pricing has started to set him apart from other domaines to match that. I think the cuvees you mention are superb, but they are new additions to the portfolio, which inherently means I have only tasted them in youth. They have no track record yet.

When I tasted widely in Saumur trying to establish my own hierarchy a few years ago, I ended up with Clos Rougeard first, Roches Neuves second, then a broad spread of choice in third place, with really good wines from Jean-Pierre Chevallier (Villeneuve), Antoine Sanzay, Philippe Vatan (Hureau) and lots of others.

Michae1_P0wers · October 7, 2016, 1:33pm

Chris Kissack:

The only domaine I think of as having a cult following in the world of Cab Franc is Clos Rougeard. My comment referred to the Loire in general, and other vignerons with a cult following, e.g. Richard Leroy, Olivier Cousin, Nicolas Joly, Mark Angeli and the like.

Roches Neuves comes close though, and the pricing has started to set him apart from other domaines to match that. I think the cuvees you mention are superb, but they are new additions to the portfolio, which inherently means I have only tasted them in youth. They have no track record yet.

When I tasted widely in Saumur trying to establish my own hierarchy a few years ago, I ended up with Clos Rougeard first, Roches Neuves second, then a broad spread of choice in third place, with really good wines from Jean-Pierre Chevallier (Villeneuve), Antoine Sanzay, Philippe Vatan (Hureau) and lots of others.

That is very interesting Chris, but how do these compare to your top producers in Chinon and Bourgueil?

Chris_Kissack · October 7, 2016, 1:51pm

Good question. I woudl say there are no domaines comparable to Clos Rougeard, but there is a much broader selection of domaines turning out excellent wines I would rank alongside Roches Neuves. This is especially so if you judge domaines solely on the quality of their limestone/côtes cuvées, and don’t worry about ranking domaines according to the lighter wines from gravel or sand (which can be great, but will never be the greatest) in their respective portfolios. And some of these domaines are still relatively unknown, and there is a dynanism to the appellation as well with some interesting new domaines cropping up. Top domaines, which probably won’t surprise anyone, include Philippe Alliet and Matthieu Baudry, also the revitalised Charles Joguet, Couly-Dutheil for their Clos de l’Echo, Jérôme Billard for his Pierre de Tuf, and so on. But look out for less well-known names, such as Bruno Sourdais (Logis de Bouchardière), Yves Plaisantin (Jaulin-Plaisantin) & Nicolas Grosbois, the first well established but overlooked, the latter two on their way up. Definitely more choice here than in Saumur-Champigny.

The field is tighter in Bourgueil and St Nicolas de Bourgueil, but I like Benoit Amirault best, then Jacky Blot, with good value from Frédéric Mabileau, interesting wines from Sébastien David. Cotelleraie can be good too. But whereas I buy a range of wines from Chinon, I generally buy mostly from the Amiraults and Jacky Blot for my own drinking.

Michae1_P0wers · October 7, 2016, 1:59pm

Thanks Chris, a very much appreciated list considering your experience. I will seek out some of these that are unknown to me.

Corey_N · October 7, 2016, 2:15pm

Rumor has it that a branch fell off one of the trees at Château Cubano. Your bravery in the face of such adversity is an inspiration to us all.

Vince_T · October 7, 2016, 2:32pm

Chris Kissack:

Michael Powers:

That is very interesting Chris, but how do these compare to your top producers in Chinon and Bourgueil?

Good question. I woudl say there are no domaines comparable to Clos Rougeard, but there is a much broader selection of domaines turning out excellent wines I would rank alongside Roches Neuves. This is especially so if you judge domaines solely on the quality of their limestone/côtes cuvées, and don’t worry about ranking domaines according to the lighter wines from gravel or sand (which can be great, but will never be the greatest) in their respective portfolios. And some of these domaines are still relatively unknown, and there is a dynanism to the appellation as well with some interesting new domaines cropping up. Top domaines, which probably won’t surprise anyone, include Philippe Alliet and Matthieu Baudry, also the revitalised Charles Joguet, Couly-Dutheil for their Clos de l’Echo, Jérôme Billard for his Pierre de Tuf, and so on. But look out for less well-known names, such as Bruno Sourdais (Logis de Bouchardière), Yves Plaisantin (Jaulin-Plaisantin) & Nicolas Grosbois, the first well established but overlooked, the latter two on their way up. Definitely more choice here than in Saumur-Champigny.

The field is tighter in Bourgueil and St Nicolas de Bourgueil, but I like Benoit Amirault best, then Jacky Blot, with good value from Frédéric Mabileau, interesting wines from Sébastien David. Cotelleraie can be good too. But whereas I buy a range of wines from Chinon, I generally buy mostly from the Amiraults and Jacky Blot for my own drinking.

Good post Chris, thanks. Are these the ones you are drinking these young? I find some of the “better” bottlings to be not-that-pleasurable in their youth.

Robert.A.Jr · October 7, 2016, 3:14pm

The hurricane damage has been catastrophic. I tried to save the bottle but the hegemony of the wind kept me at bay. I am traumatized, have called the counselors and property carriers. Fortunately, I was able to save the 3L Caymus.

Corey_N · October 7, 2016, 3:23pm

Señor Bobby is not the hero we want, but he’s the hero we deserve.

I’m feeling inspired.

Cuban inspired.

marc_d · October 7, 2016, 3:38pm

Chris Kissack:

Michael Powers:

That is very interesting Chris, but how do these compare to your top producers in Chinon and Bourgueil?

Good question. I woudl say there are no domaines comparable to Clos Rougeard, but there is a much broader selection of domaines turning out excellent wines I would rank alongside Roches Neuves. This is especially so if you judge domaines solely on the quality of their limestone/côtes cuvées, and don’t worry about ranking domaines according to the lighter wines from gravel or sand (which can be great, but will never be the greatest) in their respective portfolios. And some of these domaines are still relatively unknown, and there is a dynanism to the appellation as well with some interesting new domaines cropping up. Top domaines, which probably won’t surprise anyone, include Philippe Alliet and Matthieu Baudry, also the revitalised Charles Joguet, Couly-Dutheil for their Clos de l’Echo, Jérôme Billard for his Pierre de Tuf, and so on. But look out for less well-known names, such as Bruno Sourdais (Logis de Bouchardière), Yves Plaisantin (Jaulin-Plaisantin) & Nicolas Grosbois, the first well established but overlooked, the latter two on their way up. Definitely more choice here than in Saumur-Champigny.

The field is tighter in Bourgueil and St Nicolas de Bourgueil, but I like Benoit Amirault best, then Jacky Blot, with good value from Frédéric Mabileau, interesting wines from Sébastien David. Cotelleraie can be good too. But whereas I buy a range of wines from Chinon, I generally buy mostly from the Amiraults and Jacky Blot for my own drinking.

Thanks for this Chris.

Where would you put Pierre and Catherine Breton in here?
Specifically their top wines like Bourgueil Les Perrieres and Chinon St Louans?

I hope you are OK Robert, hurricanes are nasty.

Robert.A.Jr · October 7, 2016, 4:32pm

Inspired by our favorite Wine Doctor, Senor Kissack, if my storage opens today, or even if tomorrow, I will swing by to try one of those upper-end, old vine Franc de Pied cuvees by Domaine de Roche Neuves. Time to check in and see how these young babies compare and what promise they show.

And marc, while i’m only a juris doctor, not one of wine, I can vouche for the Bretons. The Franc de Pied cuvée is excellent. Have enjoyed many, many bottles of it.

Marc_Frontario · October 7, 2016, 5:09pm

That’s a really super cool corkscrew Bobby.

CFu · October 7, 2016, 5:37pm

a man with a breakfast room should have a bunker for safety.

Robert.A.Jr · October 7, 2016, 5:42pm

It’s Florida! We have land and space but cannot go below. That’s pesky water line little issue. I do need a man cave, however. I’m trying to work right now in that breakfast room, and my wife is so ecstatic that I’m here, she’s talking my ear off. The kid is stir crazy, wanting to go drive in the streets.

J_Singleton · October 7, 2016, 5:50pm

If you need an offsite for your Rougeard and Sociando, I provide super cheap storage in Dallas. Only will require a few bottles as compensation.

CFu · October 7, 2016, 6:30pm

no man room? you are no man without one if you have the space!

Robert.A.Jr · October 7, 2016, 6:37pm

It’s an open floor plan! I consider it my castle, plus I decorated it. Oh, now I definitely blew the man-card…

[Edit: life is back in order, just re-hung some of my art that i took down from the main rooms that have a lot of plate glass]

Marc_Frontario · October 7, 2016, 9:32pm

Robert Alfert:

I’ve been thinking for a while that these Rougeard wines have become stupidly over-priced. The basic domaine is 2-3x more than top Loire producers, like Baudry, Joguet, Roche Neuves, Raffault, etc. On the grey market, bottles can run $200-$300+ for the Les Poyeaux and Le Bourg. But as good as these other producers are - and they really are damn good - there is a difference. Not just a qualitative difference, but more notably a difference in texture and refinement. These Rougeards seem to have a layer of elegance, finesse, transparency and layering of details that I typically only find in Franc de Pieds, like a Plouzeau from a killer year. The Les Poyeaux and Le Bourg are then a whole 'nother level. So yes, they are stupidly priced, but also stupidly good, so I will stupidly continue buying. I can tolerate a few vices among this wine vice.

Count me as a fan of Rougeard, but for the price I can not agree with you or Doc on their ‘worthiness.’ I have tasted a few bottles of Rougeard and I have yet to be overwhelmed. Yes the quality is very good, but for me not enough to justify the tariff… I get just as much pleasure from Raffault, Baudry and Plouzeau as I do Rougeard for a fraction of the price. Though admittedly, I have never tasted the Bourg, so maybe this is the exception. Oh, and did I tell you nice cork screw?

Jim_Brennan · October 7, 2016, 9:41pm

My father’s place is on Amelia Island. So it’s a good thing I have all the wine.

Alan_Rath · October 7, 2016, 11:28pm

Would love to have a report when you finally get to this

Chris_Kissack · October 8, 2016, 2:14pm

Vince T:

Chris Kissack:

Michael Powers:

That is very interesting Chris, but how do these compare to your top producers in Chinon and Bourgueil?

Good question. I woudl say there are no domaines comparable to Clos Rougeard, but there is a much broader selection of domaines turning out excellent wines I would rank alongside Roches Neuves. This is especially so if you judge domaines solely on the quality of their limestone/côtes cuvées, and don’t worry about ranking domaines according to the lighter wines from gravel or sand (which can be great, but will never be the greatest) in their respective portfolios. And some of these domaines are still relatively unknown, and there is a dynanism to the appellation as well with some interesting new domaines cropping up. Top domaines, which probably won’t surprise anyone, include Philippe Alliet and Matthieu Baudry, also the revitalised Charles Joguet, Couly-Dutheil for their Clos de l’Echo, Jérôme Billard for his Pierre de Tuf, and so on. But look out for less well-known names, such as Bruno Sourdais (Logis de Bouchardière), Yves Plaisantin (Jaulin-Plaisantin) & Nicolas Grosbois, the first well established but overlooked, the latter two on their way up. Definitely more choice here than in Saumur-Champigny.

The field is tighter in Bourgueil and St Nicolas de Bourgueil, but I like Benoit Amirault best, then Jacky Blot, with good value from Frédéric Mabileau, interesting wines from Sébastien David. Cotelleraie can be good too. But whereas I buy a range of wines from Chinon, I generally buy mostly from the Amiraults and Jacky Blot for my own drinking.

Good post Chris, thanks. Are these the ones you are drinking these young? I find some of the “better” bottlings to be not-that-pleasurable in their youth.

Chinon is (putting my hard-hat on and preparing to duck) like Burgundy, with slopes and a variety of terroirs, which means you get some very different styles of wine all wearing the same appellation. The lighter wines which tend to come from sand are gravel terroirs on the flatter alluvial plain of the Vienne are generally the ones to drink young, while as you go up the slopes you get clay and limestone. These are the terroirs which give the better cuvées which you refer to and I definitely agree they do not always drink well young. With Burgundy, there premier cru and grand cru appellations guide us to some extent, as these tend to reflect where the vineyards are on the slope, and the real geeks know which vineyard is where anyway. With Chinon it is more difficult; there is no cru system, and even when the vigneron names the vineyard on the label, try finding a map to pinpoint where that vineyard is. It’s not easy! But wines like those I mentioned all come from limestone terroirs and I treat them like any otehr serious red wine, I might check in on them once in the first decade but otherwise I tend to drink them once they are ten years old, but with no rush. From Baudry, Alliet, Couly-Dutheil and the like the vintages I have drunk recently have been 2003, 2005 and 2006 but I have bottles from the limestone côtes drinking nicely from 1989, 1993 and 1996.