I started that thread because I’ve found a lot of producers that I like on BerserkerDay. In most cases, it was the notes/chatter of other that encouraged me to buy the wine in the first place. I was hoping people would jump in with tasting notes so I could find other producers to seek out.
I note that Todd started a similar thread last year.
I believe the correct term is shill. But, yes.
unbelievable that sojourn is resorting to such tactics to gin up sales, and hard to give ANY merit to any tasting notes (whether sojourn or otherwise) from the various posters. just bad behavior on all participants.
Really I have no problem with the thread you started and actually it helps me make buying decisions for the BD that is coming. I have always assumed that Sojourn has a lot of tastings in different city’s and people who obviously already like them post notes, no harm done imho. Now if they are sending out free bottles just to get good reviews that is another story.
When I am offered mailing list domestic Pinots that are not yet reviewed by Tanzer, Burghound, Gilman, etc., I usually check Cellar Tracker and the WB boards to see if anyone has tasted the wines pre-release…although I have always assumed that if they had, it would have been at a visit to the winery. It never occurred to me that a winery would send free bottles to a board member in exchange for them posting reviews on this board as a marketing ploy. I suppose it is a testament to the influence of these boards. There is a big difference in my opinion between professional wine critics that receive free samples from ALL wineries and then publish what we assume are impartial reviews, and what most of us would assume are fellow wine drinkers sharing their experiences and recommendations on this board. When someone is in the biz, they state it and when they discuss a wine that they represent, they should say so. When someone is given free bottles if they agree to post reviews on this site, then they should say so. It does make me a little less trusting of what I read here, unfortunately.
Exactly.
It’s totally cool and appreciated to see notes like those. But with Rhys, for example, the context of the notes is made clear. And yes, it’s a testament to the influence of this forum. Treating forumites like bloggers is fine, but those posters need to disclose the context of their TNs the same way a blogger should.
I dont think its that big of a deal. Back when I used to post on every wine I drank, I got free wine from three wineries. One bottle I absolutely loved and posted about. One bottle I was lukewarm about and posted about it. One bottle I was not a fan of, and witheld the note, though I put it on CT and told the winemaker about it. They sent me a second bottle with similar results. Ironically Id probably enjoy it more these days. At any rate, I am fairly certain that I mentioned on my notes that they were freebies. Though if it wasnt for this thread, I wouldnt have given it much thought. The reason why I mentioned it, was because the first winery that sent me a bottle asked publicly (in a thread) if I would taste the wine, so it flowed naturally that I mentioned this in my note.
The wines are pre release. That is an indication of preferential treatment of some sort, whether a tasting at the winery or a wine sent in the mail. It is still free wine that most people dont have access to. That is all anyone needs to know for the grain of salt. Would it be easier if people added a “warning: I got this bottle for free?” Sure but I think that if you are paying attention and have half a brain it is pretty self evident, as is the case with the Sojourn notes, that the buyer should beware of bias.
You can, however, question my decision to not post a note when I disliked the wine. I am shady like that 
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But, but, this is the internet. There are no prerequisites. With that said I always mention in my note if the wine was a gift from the winemaker. I’ve had guys give me a bottle and ask me to get back to them with my impressions but have never been asked to post notes publicly in exchange for the gratis bottle. That would be kinda slimy.
Your last two sentences are the crux of the matter. I was approached to post POSITIVE notes in exchange for free wine. One of the wineries sent similar requests to at least one other very prominent proponent of Cabernet here on WB.
Hi Humberto
That is a tough one. If I were a blogger I would post the note. Negative reviews shouldn’t be the focus of a blog, but occasional negative reviews give a degree of credibility that the reviewer isn’t an easy touch for anyone who will send them free wine. Selective reviewing favours the big producers who can send hundreds of bottles out, knowing they’ll hit some positive reviews.
As an individual, I did once get given a free bottle by a local merchant (when he dropped off a case I’d bought from him). He had just started stocking wines from a producer in Tuscany and was seeking an opinion. The wine wasn’t to my taste and when I saw him next he asked how I found it and I let him know. I did also post a TN to CT. I did doubt whether that was fair, but felt it was. I wasn’t comfortable posting to a wine forum however, even though I might well have posted to a wine forum (with suitable caveat) had I enjoyed the wine.
Double standards? Yes I think it is, but I would have felt like a jerk had I also posted a negative review on a wine forum as well. I’m just an ordinary bloke and not a blogger or aspiring wine critic, so I can/should tread a little more gently.
regards
Ian
As one of the receivers of the Sojourn new release (3rd time if I remember correct) I can assure you that nothing ominous has happened here save for the simple forgetting of mention such in advance, I actually did not think of it. I am not a professional nor do I get special treatment but have always felt honored when offered such a gesture. I could have only posted on cellartracker and will only in the future if anyone ever sends me samples again. I have made the decision to stop notes here altogether, but that’s another thing.
I post here because I think them a value to anyone who has ever came here and said ‘The new XXXX release had dropped, anyone taste them?’ threads. If the wines were less than good, I would say so and I believe the senders know that as I have made many great friendships through the years and actually met many of these people; I have met Craig many times (Feel free to check http://www.clony.com for many of my wine world friendships. A group that was quite successful and based on honesty and fairness, just ask around as I think my reputation speaks for itself and will not be sullied by pettiness). Craig knows I am honest and fair, as anyone who knows me or met me would. I never accept with the understanding of a note having to be positive and if I ever did, I would refuse them as I have many times, I mean let’s face it, nobody is sending me Châteauneuf-du-Pape; I am drinking and sampling wheelhouse wines. Also, I always share these wines with others, ask that around too. Also, these are wines I am familiar with and have a track record with, so it makes sense; there have been times where a new wine impressed me so and I have shared those too, a few have done very well around here. Very well. I am sure there would be a line of those stating that my notes have helped them make SMART purchases on a new release; I hear from many and am always humbled. Almost all of these found at a CLONYC dinner or tasting on my own dime. You can’t besmirch me on this, nobody can. I guarantee it.
Bill, if you are insinuating me, you best delete that comment. You have no clue as to me, my world and my ways. I don’t need free wine and have always gotten excited about sampling them in advance but I gotta say guys, way to kill the buzz. Note writing is actually work, but the love for wine has been my only driving force to do so.
I have been spending less time here lately. Same asses being asses.
Bill, you are a subtle as a brick, but grace has never been your strong-point. You have ran better people from here, me I could give a shit. Very prominent Cab guy my ass.
Anyone want a list of the wine I have sampled gratis, please email me at mike@pobega.com.
I am an open book.
Cheers!
If it’s a quid pro quo (i.e., “we will send you this wine if you write a good note”) that’s clearly distasteful. If it’s more along the lines of sending bottles in hopes to get tasting notes up on CT (with perhaps an understanding that the folks that they sent wines to are likely to be fans), I’m ok with it, though I think it should be disclosed by the taster.
Undoubtedly getting something for free is likely to engender a certain amount of good will, but most people here have met winemakers, visited wineries, etc. and that surely influences perception too (for example, every time I open a Copain, my girlfriend mentions that it’s the first winery we visited together). I think it’s hard to draw bright lines.
Anyhow, I’d rather see more notes than fewer, so I’m willing to tolerate some “noise”. I tend to focus less on scores and glowing praise than descriptors anyway. Chances are, if a wine is red-fruited/lower alcohol/complex I’ll like it. YMMV.
Another thought…I tend not to post negative reviews on wines on WB. This obviously skews the notes in a “positive” way. I do recognize that can be problematic. In fact, I even started a thread about it.
When I got a really generous gift from a maker on this board, I was really conflicted about posting tasting notes. I loved everything in the case, but I didn’t want to sully the gift by adding the appearance of quid pro quo. Plus, his stuff is hard to get outside of his region, and I didn’t want him to get flooded with requests.
After quite a few months, and after tasting a particular beauty from the case, I broke down and posted. It came down to deciding that my little note wouldn’t change his commercial business, and I wanted to share with the group. I just wanted to spread the word among Berserkers because I was so impressed.
Reading the clues
really generous gift
maker on this board
I loved everything in the case
his stuff is hard to get
After quite a few months
I just wanted to spread the word among Berserkers because I was so impressed
It was Maison Ilan, wasn’t it?
![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
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I was dithering between a few different producers but it was the “After quite a few months” that tipped me off.
Question #3 is of interest to this discussion. I think if pressed, the FTC would consider a poster on this site to be a “blogger” for the purpose of advertising the wine even if they do not have a dedicated “blog”. Based on that, board members posting about wines that they received for free are required by federal law to state that they received the samples for free. Here in CA it is illegal to give away wine to customers (no more free tastings unless you have a grandfathered permit) so this would fall under the same umbrella. Although distributors are allowed to pour for free at supermarkets or stores like BevMo where you have to be part of a club to be able to taste for free.
Herein lies the issue at hand - you were given free bottles and you posted only ‘positive’ notes, which is what the winery is hoping you’ll do.
This is no different than companies finding social media ‘influencers’ and offering them freebies in exchange for positive notes . . .
I have no issue with wineries wanting to offer ‘preview bottles’ for some of their customers but if a customer is ‘required’ or ‘suggested’ to post notes here or elsewhere, that’s a ‘moral issue’ for me.
And if the poster does not disclose that the bottle was gifted to them from the winery, to me, it just seems a bit shady.
Mike,
I hope you know that most folks are not ‘questioning’ your integrity or reputation - I certainly am not. I appreciate your energetic notes and hope that you continue to post them.
I know that when you’ve posted notes from some of your tastings featuring specific winemakers’ wines, those donated from the winemaker were usually mentioned. Not sure why this would not be the ‘standard practice’ among posters.
To me, this is making a mountain out of a mole hill - but it is important this does get mentioned because of the ‘possibility’ of quid pro quo here.
Transparency usually wines out, no?
This.
I don’t buy from Sojourn, but if I did, I would appreciate the batches of pre-release tasting notes from people other than a maybe-overly-enthusiastic-winemaker/marketing person to help me decide which bottlings to buy.