The Legendary QPR Wine from each Major European Region

[RichardFlack]

I generally prefer the sigalas to argyros although I like both. I tend to reach for moschfilero or the Atlantis white in this genre, though.

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

I generally prefer the sigalas to argyros although I like both. I tend to reach for moschfilero or the Atlantis white in this genre, though.

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I just wish it tasted as good here as it does on Santorini

[Dennis_Borczon]

I have always wished I could prove that. Croatian wines seemed very tasty in Dubrovnik. Never seems the same when back in the States…

[Jason_T]

I generally prefer the sigalas to argyros although I like both. I tend to reach for moschfilero or the Atlantis white in this genre, though.

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I went to Greece on my honeymoon and of course drank all the Sigalas, Argyros and Hatzidakis I could get my hands on. Took mixed case home as well and am aging it (sure, I get I can buy them in the US, it was the sentiment…). I think they’re all 2012/2013. Have a couple left of each and I’m excited to see how they age.

[Jason_T]

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I just wish it tasted as good here as it does on Santorini

Totally off-topic but on my honeymoon I brought back 6 large-ish, flat rocks (not from the beach, but from the sea!), probably 4-5" across. Big enough that I can serve a bit of food on them.

On a couple times I’ve done things like heat them up in the oven till they’re crazy hot (slowly… don’t want them to explode). Hot enough that I can sear tuna or similar on them. Then I’ll serve the tuna still sizzling along with a bottle of Santorini white.

Not as good as being there, but it’s still fun, and a great way to share our honeymoon memories with our friends and family.

[Eric_Ifune]

Emmerich Knoll Loibenberg and Kellerberg Riesling Smaragd
Huet Vouvray
FE Trimbach Frederic Emile
Luis Pato Vinha Pan

[James_Billy]

Fantastic posts! Keep them coming.

I see the Prince Charmings have joined us from their Loire chateaux and one of the riesling grumps has also joined us. Great wine recos from everyone.

Fantastic stuff about Santorini Assyrtiko. I haven’t a lot of experience here, but I have been disappointed by the big names a few times. With so much wine to chose from, it’s easy to useva mediocre bottle as an excuse to avoid a winery. But I have learnt so much by trusting the views of people on here that I’ll overlook those bottles and try a few more.

[James_Billy]

Bordeaux:

Chateau Meyney
In The Pantheon of Great Bordeaux QPRs: 1986 Chateau Meyney - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

Chateau Cantemerle
Chateau La Lagune

And yes, you know I’m gonna say Sociando and Lanessan.
Lanessan

Choose one!

Would have to be Cantemerle.

Meyney has changed stylistically with Bouard, it just is a legend in QPR. The 1980s Meyney rocked! Lanessan has also flipped to the dark side, bringing in Bouard for the 2015 vintage. Some may like these more modern styles, and if so, they remain great values. Sociando is a personal favorite, and is the largest holding in my bordeaux collection, but it may be too distinct for some folks to declare it “the” legendary QPR.

Cantemerle is a Classified Growth. It is remarkably consistent year after year, and matures so gracefully. It remains very fairly, if not under, priced. It is one of those wines that appeals to the modernists like Jeff Leve and the country palates like mine.

Grab the 2010 and 2009 and you will see. The 2016 is floating around $35 and 2018 futures around $30.

Thanks Robert,

As much as I’ve listened to (and learned from) your opinions on ‘East Coast’ reds, I’m going to stick with Sociando. Here’s why. SM has not gone to the dark side. It is well placed to handle global warming/climate change. Heck, it’s best in a warm year, I’d say. SM has been one of the wines of the vintage (2003) despite being unclassified and, I’d say, is quite legendary one here. A thread on Cantemerle wouldn’t generate so much chat, I’d guess.

In any case, Julian agrees

[Julian_Marshall]

Choose one!

Would have to be Cantemerle.

Meyney has changed stylistically with Bouard, it just is a legend in QPR. The 1980s Meyney rocked! Lanessan has also flipped to the dark side, bringing in Bouard for the 2015 vintage. Some may like these more modern styles, and if so, they remain great values. Sociando is a personal favorite, and is the largest holding in my bordeaux collection, but it may be too distinct for some folks to declare it “the” legendary QPR.

Cantemerle is a Classified Growth. It is remarkably consistent year after year, and matures so gracefully. It remains very fairly, if not under, priced. It is one of those wines that appeals to the modernists like Jeff Leve and the country palates like mine.

Grab the 2010 and 2009 and you will see. The 2016 is floating around $35 and 2018 futures around $30.

Thanks Robert,

As much as I’ve listened to (and learned from) your opinions on ‘East Coast’ reds, I’m going to stick with Sociando. Here’s why. SM has not gone to the dark side. It is well placed to handle global warming/climate change. Heck, it’s best in a warm year, I’d say. SM has been one of the wines of the vintage (2003) despite being unclassified and, I’d say, is quite legendary one here. A thread on Cantemerle wouldn’t generate so much chat, I’d guess.

In any case, Julian agrees

I never knew the Loire region had an East Coast! Just goes to show that Julian really does know bugger all, something my wife will be happy to confirm!

FWIW my taste jury is out re Cantemerle - I’ve liked some vintages, not so much others, perhaps because the style changes on a regular basis, and I’m still waiting hopefully for another 1989 but it’s getting to be a bit like Godot.

[James_Billy]

Oops! West! The West coast of France - Loire and Bordeaux, I meant! My wife knows for sure how dumb I am

[RichardFlack]

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I just wish it tasted as good here as it does on Santorini

I suspect that’s not specific to Sigalas wine …

[RichardFlack]

Same here on Sigalas over Argyros at least on Assyrtiko. On the Vin Santo though, I think I favor Argyros. Stuff is just beautiful.

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I went to Greece on my honeymoon and of course drank all the Sigalas, Argyros and Hatzidakis I could get my hands on. Took mixed case home as well and am aging it (sure, I get I can buy them in the US, it was the sentiment…). I think they’re all 2012/2013. Have a couple left of each and I’m excited to see how they age.

Opened a Sigalas 2010 basic bottling earlier this year - excellent. Alas didn’t take detailed notes, it wasn’t that kind of event, but still vibrant and some real complexity are my basic recollections. I typically open these in the 5- 8 year window.

[Jason_T]

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I went to Greece on my honeymoon and of course drank all the Sigalas, Argyros and Hatzidakis I could get my hands on. Took mixed case home as well and am aging it (sure, I get I can buy them in the US, it was the sentiment…). I think they’re all 2012/2013. Have a couple left of each and I’m excited to see how they age.

Opened a Sigalas 2010 basic bottling earlier this year - excellent. Alas didn’t take detailed notes, it wasn’t that kind of event, but still vibrant and some real complexity are my basic recollections. I typically open these in the 5- 8 year window.

Good to know, thanks Richard!

[James_Billy]

Sigalas, especially with some bottle age.

I went to Greece on my honeymoon and of course drank all the Sigalas, Argyros and Hatzidakis I could get my hands on. Took mixed case home as well and am aging it (sure, I get I can buy them in the US, it was the sentiment…). I think they’re all 2012/2013. Have a couple left of each and I’m excited to see how they age.

Opened a Sigalas 2010 basic bottling earlier this year - excellent. Alas didn’t take detailed notes, it wasn’t that kind of event, but still vibrant and some real complexity are my basic recollections. I typically open these in the 5- 8 year window.

That’s OK. Overall impressions matter more to me than detailed TNs.

[James_Billy]

Guys, should I pick Sigalas as it’s more popular or Hatzidakis it has no major objections?

[James_Billy]

Robert? Anyone else? Help me choose the one legendary QPR wine from each group below:

Vouvray:
Huet (cuvee: le Haut- Lieu Sec???)

Laherte Freres Ultradition NV or Charles Heidsieck Brut Reserve NV Champagne

Sigalas or Hatzidakis Assyrtiko??

Roilette ‘Cuvee Tardive’ or Foillard Cote du Py or Marcel Lapierre Morgon or Coudert Pere ‘Clos de la Roilette’ Fleurie Cuvee Tardive Beaujolais (PLEASE HELP ME CHOOSE ONE!!!)

Baudry Les Grezeaux Chinon or Olga Raffault Picasses

[Otto_Forsberg]

Guys, should I pick Sigalas as it’s more popular or Hatzidakis it has no major objections?

Well, I think Sigalas is relatively poor in QPR - at least in Santorini - where their basic Santorini Assyrtiko is priced similarly to the other producers’ top wines, and Sigalas flagship wines are more expensive than most if not any other Santorini wines. Yet I think, tit-for-tat, at least Hatzidakis, Argyros and Artemis Karamolegos produce wines of at least similar level of quality to Sigalas, if not higher.

I don’t know how Sigalas is priced in the US compared to the other Santorini producers, but while it may be quality-wise at the same level with the aforementioned producers - as that is pretty subjective - I wouldn’t say they are the best QPR. The other producers offer pretty much the same value for less money. So at least one major objection here!

Madiran - Montus or Domaine de Berthoumieu Cuvée Charles de Batz?

While I’ve had some riveting old Montus wines, I don’t think the wines Montus produces nowadays are particularly interesting or good value. They are very polished, modern and rather oaky with a more contemporary Bordeaux than Madiran feel to them. At least in my books Charles de Batz is definitely much better value, since it is both more affordable and shows more typicity.

EDIT: Sorry, confused Charles de Batz to another Madiran we had in a relatively recent tasting. Charles de Batz was an oaky modernist too! So that’s a “no” to both of the wines from me!

However, I’d nominate Domaine Capmartin Cuvée du Couvent and Château Barréjat for the best QPR for Madiran. Those are some fine, classic Madiran wines and outstanding value for the buck.

[Jan_Janas]

A couple more:

Burgundy: Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
Champagne: Laherte Freres Ultradition NV
Trentino-Alto Adige: Terlan Vorberg Riserva Pinot Bianco

[Edit: removed Australian picks after seeing EU only in title]

[James_Billy]

Guys, should I pick Sigalas as it’s more popular or Hatzidakis it has no major objections?

Well, I think Sigalas is relatively poor in QPR - at least in Santorini - where their basic Santorini Assyrtiko is priced similarly to the other producers’ top wines, and Sigalas flagship wines are more expensive than most if not any other Santorini wines. Yet I think, tit-for-tat, at least Hatzidakis, Argyros and Artemis Karamolegos produce wines of at least similar level of quality to Sigalas, if not higher.

I don’t know how Sigalas is priced in the US compared to the other Santorini producers, but while it may be quality-wise at the same level with the aforementioned producers - as that is pretty subjective - I wouldn’t say they are the best QPR. The other producers offer pretty much the same value for less money. So at least one major objection here!

Madiran - Montus or Domaine de Berthoumieu Cuvée Charles de Batz?

While I’ve had some riveting old Montus wines, I don’t think the wines Montus produces nowadays are particularly interesting or good value. They are very polished, modern and rather oaky with a more contemporary Bordeaux than Madiran feel to them. At least in my books Charles de Batz is definitely much better value, since it is both more affordable and shows more typicity.

EDIT: Sorry, confused Charles de Batz to another Madiran we had in a relatively recent tasting. Charles de Batz was an oaky modernist too! So that’s a “no” to both of the wines from me!

However, I’d nominate Domaine Capmartin Cuvée du Couvent and Château Barréjat for the best QPR for Madiran. Those are some fine, classic Madiran wines and outstanding value for the buck.

Otto, it was your objection initially that stopped Sigalas being confirmed as the pick. Let’s see if others can help me make the choice.

I’ll leave out Madiran if there is no consensus. Not a major region in any case!

[James_Billy]

A couple more:

Burgundy: Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
Champagne: Laherte Freres Ultradition NV
Trentino-Alto Adige: Terlan Vorberg Riserva Pinot Bianco

That’s 2 votes for Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne Rouge and none for other versions. I know that this is very popular with Berserkers, so I’ll go with it.

Champagne is a big region, so I think we need a few more votes before we choose one. There really are a lot to Choose from. How about Charles Heidsieck NV as a non-gower alternative?