Well Mike I appreciate your feedback and agree with much of what you state. It is difficult arranging offlines in NYC especially often the communication is poor people changing minds and no shows. You did have quite a nice group but it was not really as amazing an achievement as you claim in my opinion. Firstly your theme for a long time was CLONYC and I did attend a few and yes you did enjoy most of the best cabs available. The camaraderie was great and food was always good. You may have done other themes but then I think you moved onto Pinots which is another animal and equally great. Fortunately in the city through the years you had developed some close wine friends. Most of your events were usually full and they were not always posted unless someone couldn’t make it.
I have to take a bit of exception when you state that nothing can match the experiences that your group experienced ! How can you say that when you have not recently attended any of the last 3 high end wine dinners that I arranged and travelled 7 hours to attend and had an absolute blast at. Perhaps you don’t like old world wines if you do then none of your events I have attended have come close to some of the wines I have experienced at my recent events in the city. Lets see at PDH we drank:
08 Dom+ 04 HSS brought by me
04 Gaja Sperss
97 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot le Grand Maupertui
1982 Diamond Creek red Rock Terrace
2012 Faiveley Corton Charlemagne
Selosse Substance Blanc de Blancs
2003 Beaucastel
Then lets see if you only like new world which is a bit limiting but fine, there was a Harlan Vertical including both the first label and the maiden and we probably had at least 6 vintages. I don’t think you hosted that one or the Blind Cultiwine shootout or Steve Gelmans dinner at Per Se years ago with the half dozen best cults including Screagle Bryant Colgin etc
By the way between the 8 of us we had superb conversation great food and awesome wines and the service was impeccable
Lastly its great to have winemakers I have had a few attend my events but ultimately its about the fellowship and the wines. NONE of your events that you have ever held I would SERIOUSLY DOUBT you have ever attended or certainly ever arranged an event or sampled as many epiphany wines in one weekend as the Charleston Offlinorama that was held by board member Scott Brunson in Charlotte SC last month. if you have ever arranged a crazy weekend like that you certainly didn’t advertise it Unless you had some secret after parties serving Pappy 23 I doubt anything you have held has come close. I knew exactly 2 people form the gang beforehand. no pretentiousness or even folks dressing up formally.
I am working harder to arrange these then you did and probably no New Yorker on this board will do what I am currently. Would you on a pretty much every 6 week basis arrange a dinner involving 6 hours of travel and 3 or 4 at he event and travel first by car then by train AND then by subway or Lyft. Also spend time researching restaurants I have not seen a single New Yorker do this to my Ct events except when I held bottle of pain events at Wilton. But these were much closer to the city than my haul living in the middle of CT. However three of 4 of my dinners have been attended by folks from Boston. 2 of my group come up every 2nd month from S Jersey.
What a dickhead post. This is why I spend less time here and certainly would never attend one of your dinners.
If all I wanted to do was drink labels, I could have did that anytime. I wanted structure and more of a theme than a hodgepodge lineup of $300+ bottles.
Your listed lineup does not move me. I guess my group really was amazing and you are right, it was closed for the most part. Try doing 44 dinners with a few of the same people. It’s no wonder people never wanted to drop out.
You really did not appreciate my feedback, you actually too it personally. Why? Who knows, but let me not get so defensive. My resume speaks for itself. I just could not let your BS post go unchecked. You disappoint me, but I am a New Yorker, so disappointment is a daily occurance.
I don’t get that from Mike’s post. Just relaying his positive experiences hosting and being part of some great wine dinners. The CLONYC dinners were memorable !
Mike I said MANY GOOD THINGS about your events and your ability to run offlines is to be commended. I stated that and elaborated on it.
Your exact words " I have never seen anything come close to even matching what the small dedicated and fun loving CLONYC group has experienced.
Every single dinner I have arranged in the last 20 years has had great people 3 or 4 hours fly by and almost all have came back many times some for years. So maybe you have never seen anything come close because perhaps you have never attended too many offlines from passionate hard working offline arrangers. If all of the great wines I enjoyed are all just labels then why did Leo and all his friends who drank some of the finest wines in the world not get designated as such. I have experienced many old world wines that are famous names and deservedly so. If you think that people pay a lot of money for Chave or Pignan or Shafer Hillside Select are stupid then you are missing out on some amazing unique wines.
BUT for you to say that nobodys offlines can match yours is an AWFULLY SMUG and arrogant statement and you have never in the past ever attended any of mine or alot of the other events. TO say nothing compare to yours is a delusion of grandeur,
I have arranged probably 60 in my life and they were all great some WITH THEME and SOME WITHOUT You went on the attack calling me a dickhead. You wouldn’t say that to my face big man on campus. Now go enjoy your wines I will carry on with my group and anyone on this group who thinks your belligerent response is warranted and wants to hate me or not attend my events ever that is fine I make new wine friends all the time. I have several friends in the city who love to drink some of the worlds better wines. When you drink a Fairchild or a MacDonald or a Ridge Monte Bello or any cab that is expensive and well known aren’t you drinking labels.
Have a nice life ! I won’t even lower myself to call you some of the childish names like dickhead you called me how damn childish for a man almost 60 years old.
If you have anything else to say just keep it to yourself. Anyone form the New York crowd who feels Mikes attack on me is fine for taking exception to the fact that his offlines were the best any where fine hate me. I don’t give a crap and I certainly am not going to lay down and be intimidated by ANY New Yorker. Many of you are great folks and a blast to be around anyone who doesn’t like my attitude or my events don’t attend but don’t bother on the attacks, I did not provoke it and do not deserve it. For some reason only in the NY thread here is there so much fighting and even on my event thread was a squabble between two folks not even attending who had to be told by Charlie to give it a rest.
So Mike play armchair quarterback all you want when you don’t even arrange them any more Yes you were the best ever I admit it but now you are burned out and tired and I am still kicking like the Energizer Bunny. If my core new group stays loyal great I don’t need mass approval. if it dissolves which I doubt I will give up on New York quite gladly and carry on with my Ct group By the way two of whom trek up from S Jersey. Because of the wine ? No Because of the fellowship !!Now tonight to forget all of this crap I think I will chase a label like I usually do and open a bottle of 08 Dom. Amazing how people pay all that money for a name ??!!
Steve whether you wish to mention it or not, you must have felt mine were pretty memorable also as you and TJ attended many traveled far to get here and we shared some great wines food and conversation. I also thoroughly enjoyed the events you arranged. Your generosity at Per Se will always be remembered as well as the totally exotic food. Back then the restaurant was on their A game !
I knew when I posted that somebody from the local crowd would attack me even though I discussed both negative and positive aspects. It seems many in the local crowd can dish it out but cant take it. If anyone sees my point great if not and anyone else wants to attack go have at it.
I had the pleasure of attending 3 or 4 of these dinners over the years. Always a fun time. As for Di Fara’s, thank you for the kind words. I’ll save you a place at the next one on Fat Tuesday.
Since I’m not a fan of drama… I’m going to control the list for the upcoming event.
Dan,
I assume you referring to me for defending myself against the attack on me. If calling me a dickhead and accusing me of drinking labels is fine than it looks like you concur with Mr Pobega, whom I had been friends with for a dozen years. Really classy and if you like his response than I really have no interest in attending. I would feel sad if I was unable to attend. I know and like around two thirds of the usual gang. I have always enjoyed your events and hope that because you are friends with Mike that you don’t exclude me for simply a tiff that was unprovoked. I have never caused any drama at any offline I have ever attended and certainly wish I had never posted on this thread although I felt compelled to as my Wu’s event although enjoyable was a planning mess and some of it was the peoples fault. But if that happens I cant help it and there are a ton of other events I plan and attend all over, but your DiFara event is a great party. But very simple answer if Indeed I am banned is simply do my own event at Pepes which has a valid claim to being the best in the country. DiFaras is in the same league but certainly not better especially the white clam at Pepes
Not sure about Jay’s question on where NYC offlines have disappeared to comes from. I probably go to two or three a month but I know some folks who average more like two a week.
I feel Jonathan’s pain. Organizing can be a pain in the ass with last minute cancellations. I think once you have pretty much a core group, it becomes a lot easier but there will always be last minute business trips or health stuff that comes up. One of my monthly dinners is with my Bordeaux group. Core group is 11 and we usually get 7-9 every month. The organizer sends out a doodle with a bunch of dates on it for the following month. Date with most yeses that people can make becomes the winning date. While we drink a lot of Bordeaux, we also do other stuff. 10 people showed up this past Monday for 89 and 99 Barolo dinner.
Jonathan,
Things happen when these offlines are presented, it sounds like you get visibly upset when you post an offline, someone responds and then you get annoyed when they cannot attend because any number of things might arise ( an ill relative, a child needing attention, etc). Your attitude could be precisely why you might have difficulty grabbing some people.
Suffice it to say, you post an offline, you mention a price point, and/or theme. For those who can make it great, and if they cannot, you seem to want some type of explanation as to why they cannot attend, such is life.
Mike Reff
you are totally wrong on that assessment. I understand that both Dinesh and jay both had family health emergencies and I would NEVER expect that anyone put a social event before their family welfare. I have arranged tons of these over the years and never have I had a full group of 10 with 4 on the waiting list and have 3 people cancel and none of the waiting list take the spots. Several had simply changed their mind. Don’t put yourself on a waiting list unless you are almost certain you will be available 2 or 3 days before, and if you are on the waitlist and circumstances change drop me a line no problems. From a starting line up of 10 and 4 on the waitlist to an attendance of 5 is the most fallout I have seen in 20 years and is partly due to the flakiness of the crowd and some was medical emergencies and the storm. The medical issues and the storm are fine but the other flakiness was absurd. Anyone who thinks going form 14 to 5 is normal has an alternate version of reality.
I will get over it I am not upset with New York In general but should not be totally surprised that most folks seem to think the attack of being called a DICKHEAD AND CHASING LABELS is fine and somehow I am the jerk have fun ganging up on me !! I guess most of you stick together fine. I have my core group who love the events and will probably make it a semi closed group with occasional extra players. Really don’t need all this crap.
Also Mike, a little bit hypocritical of you telling me to relax when you and Ian had pretty long tiff on my thread about the offline. Neither one of you at that point were attending and all you did was create a sideshow distracting people from the task at hand He made some little sarcastic comment and you two had to go off at each other long enough that our moderator had to tell you both to chill out. A huge overreaction and pretty thin skinned I guess when you feel wronged from a slightly sarcastic comment you fight, but when people call me a dickhead I am supposed to chill out. I will continue with my new little group and will top wasting my time listening to people reminisce about how good the old days were when there are great events happening right now.
Lastly Mike… I have had no problem with turnout at my events usually. The PDH event was Totally full with 10 folks and I said no to a few others as we didn’t want small pours. My Wu’s event was full with 10 also and a waitlist of 4. I MADE NO COMMENTS at all during th planning that caused people to drop out. I simply went down the list and when folks dropped out said hope to see you next time. All of my events in Ct have 6 or 8 people and that is the exact size I like. Have had twelve at some.
How many were at your event at Kittle House ? Two ! That’s not a very big number. I don’t doubt you had a good time or great food or great conversation. I have a few times had offlines with 3 folks and had a blast so it is nice but not necessary to have a bigger group. And in spite of all the folks who cancelled at Wus which was enormous to get 5 people gathered during holiday season in the middle of a big snowstorm is actually quite a good turn out. if the snow had not happened there were a solid 7 folks.
Perhaps you need lessons on how to get a turnout bigger than 2 because if you have a cancellation a party of one cannot be considered an offline.
Can you please school me on how to create, and fulfill an offline, I think I need help in that area. I would so enjoy someone with your cellar and depth of knowledge to show how to be a better offliner…
You want to compare offlines, and see whose is better, is that what you are really trying to do? I guess I do not earn enough money as you do, nor have a cellar as deep as yours, I have offlined with m any people on this board and no one has even been as pretentious as you. Have fun with your new crew, hope you have many offlines and successes. I for one, will never attend one of your events, you made it quite evident in your PM’s to me, which I will not share with the public since from my point of view just exude pure snobbery. I guess one seems to find these when dealing with a ‘luxury’ item such as wine.
Tired of this thread and all of the insults hurled at me. To state the fact that the NY crowd is much tougher to coral than any other brought hellfire . Defended myself enough and almost nobody seems to think the insults from various folks are unwarranted. Most would either back each other up or just watch and eat popcorn. Bye y’all Blood pressure through the roof.
I am not sure why this thread has gotten derailed.
Anyway I appreciate people making effort to arrange offline. It is not easy. It is because of their hard work that I have had the opportunity to attend some amazing events.
On that note I appreciate Jonathan Sirot doing that. Thank you Jonathan and looking forward to the next one.
I also appreciate @shan doing that looking forward to the next one.
Thank you for the vote of good faith Victor. Was good to see you recently. I now know quite well who in the area has appreciated my efforts over the years and are my friends and who seems to wish to start trouble I will continue organizing events in the future whatever the naysayers think. After all last time I checked there is no wall to keep me out.
No, but there is a list. Dan’s list, to be precise. Doesn’t look like you’ll be on it anymore according to his not-so-veiled inference. What a pity you’ll have to consign yourself to Pepe’s for their superior pizza.
By the by, have I mentioned this place is the dog’s bollocks? Seriously! Where else can you announce in the title that you’re going to bust chops, and the mods let it ride without interference? This thread is a cracking good time!
Agree on both counts. As someone who organized a fair number of offlines in olden times and largely stopped due to the various issues referenced above I admire anyone who puts in the effort.
Of course I still do my Sherry dinners but good luck getting people to sign up for that
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