The process of ordering bottles at a restaurant

WINE TALK
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As stated in the subject line, I wanted to discuss the cumbersome process of ordering wines off the list at restaurants. Not the price, markup or tipping, which are discussed extensively in many other threads.

I normally BYO, and among the long list of reasons that works well for me, is that after we sit down, we are usually only one step away from being able to start enjoying the wine, and we can enjoy it while looking at the menu, having conversation, and so forth.

The process of ordering off the list can be a long process filled with delays of unknown length:

  • sit down
  • server eventually comes by, ask for wine list
  • eventually receive wine list
  • try to look and find something without being a bore staring at the list too long but also not just picking a bad wine because you’re rushing
  • Wait for server to come back by
  • ask for wine
  • Wait for server again
  • Sometimes get the wrong wine, get told that bottle or vintage is out of stock, or get one that is flawed, and now restart the process

This is also true if you meet friends at a restaurant bar. They all get a round of drinks while you’re still waiting to get a copy of the wine list, then you have to look it over, wait for a chance to ask someone for your selection, wait a long time for that to show up, etc. Last time I was in that situation at a Morton’s, the bottle probably arrived 30 minutes after we sat together at the bar, the bottle was corked, and it was getting near time to leave anyway.

Is there a way that restaurants can make the process more efficient? I suppose for those restaurants that put a wine list online, and if that list is reasonably accurate and has the vintage and price information you want, then that can shortcut the process by a few steps. Even in the best case, a very small percentage of diners are going to look that up and do that, though.

Is there anything else? Anyone seen good practices out there that should become more widespread?

Or am I being too needy or whiny wanting it to be better? Should you just figure it’s a long process and just hope to have the bottle open by the time you start eating your dinner?

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Well this is why certain restaurants offer you an aperitif as soon as you sit down so that you can relax while perusing the wine list.

It’s also gotten easier in the modern world of online lists, so I usually arrive knowing what I want to order and only need to quickly scan to see if anything has changed in the actual list.

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Been waiting for an ability to flash my phone on a list and have it spit out retail prices, CT notes, etc.

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I can sometimes enjoy the process if the atmosphere is good and things seem to be moving at a reasonable pace. What I hate is when food starts appearing before my wine arrives. With any tasting menu, I make it very clear upon sitting down and asking for the list that I don’t want the menu to start until wine has been poured.

Had a difficult time with this situation in Hong Kong recently. We had a BYO red to go with the highly anticipated lamb neck dish, but when we opened it, it was corked (yes, I should have opened it earlier, but we were with friends for drinks beforehand and I didn’t think of it). So I started the process of looking for a replacement. Of course the course arrived long before the bottle appeared (they couldn’t find it at first), and then the bottle was too cold, and by the time the wine was at temp in the glass the dish was cold. We barely drank any of it, but the rest was delicious back at the hotel.

All of that is to say that I don’t have any suggestions, but share your frustration.

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I think it’s just old-fashioned good service.

Present the list with menus when you are seated.

Attentive servers: ask if you have wine questions right away, and check back as soon as you’ve stopped looking at the list.

Have enough qualified staff to get your bottle quickly and be sure it’s the correct bottle.

I realize many restaurants do not accomplish this, but the ones I go back to usually do.

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I was a server while I was in college. We had empty wine racks right above the register we used to ring all orders (so we were there all the time). The white wines, of course, we kept in the walk-in, but the red wines we kept in some other storage area I can’t remember, but it was way out of the way and a PITA to get to and from to retrieve a bottle, and of course anyone who’s ever been a server knows that steps are money.

So one day I asked the manager if we couldn’t put a supply of the red wines in the empty wine racks by the register, so the process wouldn’t slow down so much every time someone ordered a bottle of red. Instead, we could just grab it as we rung the order, standing at the register where we had to go anyway.

“Oh, you’d like that, wouldn’t you? (very sarcastic)” was her response.

“Well, yes, or I wouldn’t have asked… (very puzzled)”

Yadda yadda and it turns out she was convinced that the location of the wine rack in relation to the back door where the dumpster was meant that it would be easy for us to steal wine by tossing it in the dumpster and retrieving it later, so it was in the inconvenient place on purpose so that we would have to walk past her desk/“office” on the way to and from the red wines and she could keep an eye on us.

As a naive upper middle class suburban kid, having my boss tell me that she EXPECTED me to steal from the business if she made it easy enough was a bit of a blow to our relationship.

Especially given that she had no compunction at all about staying after work and hanging with the bartender and a couple other of her favorites and drinking for free from the top shelf behind the bar. Of course maybe that was why she assumed everyone else would be a hooch thief if they could, too.

Restaurant was OOB less than a year later. Go figure.

But there’s one example/reason why the process was more cumbersome than it otherwise had to be at one restaurant in 1986, FWIW.

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One very helpful tact for me especially in a business situation where I am always forced to pick a great bottle within budget is to request a copy of the wine list beforehand.

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Bartenders always get indulged. When I worked in restaurants–prep cook, food runner, busboy, waitron–it was just ridiculous how much many they brought in for basically no work. Line cooks, in the meantime, were making virtually minimum wage, which at that time hovered around $5.25 an hour. Bartenders have aura.
On OP’s original question, I also think it’s about staffing and knowledgeable people, which many restaurants, even good ones, sadly can’t easily find or afford. When they do, it’s a bonus–because we order all that wine!

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Have the glass list (also with bottle prices) on the table when the customer is seated.
Host points it out and asks if you would like to see the complete bottle list and brings it immediately if the answer is ‘yes’.

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It varies , Chris, but I’m with you. Sometimes it is an excruciatingly long process. I always felt that servers should be on the clock to get everyone their initial drink order within X minutes of sitting down. This would vastly improve the dining experience and potentially increase the check size/tip.

I blame management for not teaching this technique or making it a requirement

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I definitely appreciate the restaurants where the host offers the wine list before they take you to your table, to at least eliminate that part of the wait.

I’m not a restaurateur so I probably have no idea what I’m talking about, but I kind of always thought that both selling more wine and turning tables faster would be good for margins. So I’m surprised about how little consideration is given to optimizing these parts of the experience.

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The best case scenario is they send you to the cellar and you pick what you want.

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Azafran Restaurant in Mendoza, Argentina has an even better case scenario:
The wine room is on the ground floor, you sit down, the host points you to the room, prices are on the bottles, you don’t even have to do stairs to pick your wine and bring it to your table.

It’s an excellent restaurant, by the way. When my company dealt with Argentine wines, I found our most successful agency by buying a bottle out of that room.

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I have had very good luck with this. Email in advance using the address on the website, review at your leisure, and be ready when you walk in with 3-4 options from the list.

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The Hobbit restaurant in OC has a lovely basement wine cellar, you walk down there, they serve you an apertif and some like snacks while you peruse around for the bottle(s) you want with dinner.

But that’s definitely only for a certain type of dining experience, most people going to most restaurants (even of those who would buy wine bottles) are not looking for that to be part of their visit.

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Peruse the list online before going to the restaurant.

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Sure, but what percentage of restaurants have that, and have prices and vintages on it, and the online list is up to date?

Or maybe what you mean is that most restaurants with wine lists should put current full lists online. That would be a positive step.

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I live in New Orleans. One would be hard pressed to find a more ass backward city. But a surprising number of restaurants post their wine list on their website. Vintage variation can be an issue.

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I generally BYO but when i order off a list I wait for the wine to be poured before I ever place food order. If the server asks if we’re ready to order I tell them we’ll order after the wine is poured. Speeds up wine service too.

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I have not experienced the issues you describe. The wine list is usually delivered promptly, with the menus, and it does not take long to get the wine.

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