Greg,
I´m certainly not the one stirring the market … I have dozens of Cornas, but hundreds of Cote-Rotie and Hermitage … ![[whistle.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/87d24eb81ec6dc01d84f3d6c19fa9a357e90218e.gif "whistle"){kind=small}
If you mean it´s attacking holy cows when stating that I estimate Cote-Rotie and Hermitage higher than Cornas … well … so be it … 
Cornas is that - when you are drinking it - you really Do get a sense-of-place that you could be nowhere else but the Northern Rhone Valley.<
The same applies absolutely to CR and H … and in addition the wines are usually less rustic, more complex and simply “finer” …
That doesn´t mean that a top-Cornas cannot be better than a mean Cote-Rotie … sure it can and usually is …
I think it’s actually a little silly to generalize as much as some of this discussion is doing. I’m not convinced at all that any of the three main N.Rhone appellations can be described in its own general way - it all comes down to the producer. There are wide ranges of soils and expositions in each district, with producers using a wide range of farming and winemaking approaches across them all. You have lower and upper slopes, sometimes plateaus that are not like the slopes at all, orientations of vineyards, organic vs. non, etc., etc. Then you have smaller to larger barrels, old to new oak, other winemaking choices.
Frankly, I gave up on most Cote Rotie some years ago because of the prevalence of new oak in too many wines. While I haven’t been able to get any sense of “Hermitage style” in a long time. For me, Cornas has been, over the past 10-15 years, the place where I found the most interesting and exciting wines, at (until the past few years) more affordable prices. Interestingly, those price escalations are allowing a lot of St Joseph, and even Crozes Hermitage producers to elevate their wine substantially, to the point where I believe those appellations are starting to compete with their big brothers. There are some great soils and old vine vineyards all over the entire region, and just being located in one of the “big three” doesn’t automatically create the best wine. As with other regions, it’s producer, producer, producer.
Let me qualify a bit and disagree too. I didn’t mean to imply ALL cornas is as good as ALL cote rotie or hermitage. There’s lots of hermitages that drink better than cornas and vice versa IMO.
Where I disagree: I personally enjoy Allemand every bit as much as I do the equivalent vintage from Chave if not a bit more. I would much prefer it to any cote rotie I’ve tried to date which would include Guigal, Jamet, Rostaing, etc. I’d slightly prefer Clape from a good year vs. the equivalent from Marc Sorrel (though they’re both great).
My top 5 cornas would probably be Allemand Renard, Clape, Tunnel Pur Noir, Paris Geynale and Balthazar Chaillot. Average price across all of those is roughly $100 (at today’s more inflated pricing). What would you suggest are 5 wines from cote rotie or hermitage that come close to that price & quality?
All my distinctions are assuming you’re talking about cornas from 2009 onwards. I’ve tried examples from the 1990’s and it was clearly well behind hermitage and cote rotie at that point.
La Rioja Alta owns over 400 hectares! Lopez de Heredia owns 450 acres or ~170 hectares of which Tondonia makes up over 100 hectares. Lynch Bages is 90 hectares.
Cornas is 114 hectares in total! Kinda wild when you think about that!
No, not that. Just the fact of mentioning Verset not being worthy…that’s fighting words to many of the true believers here!
Respectfully disagree. Bought a small cellar a couple of years ago which included a ton of 1989 and 1990 Madiran.Age does not mellow them much and the mule kicking tannins remain.
Still have a few left, and they confuse wonderfully in blind tastings.
The price comparison was never in (my) discussion), you wrote:
“… and to my tastes Cornas is every bit as good as its counterparts in those other villages.”
… so it was about quality and not price …
Moreover I do not know your access to the market incl. prices (US? Europe?) …
I´m buying usually in France, mostly off domaines …
Cote-Rotie: if no Guigal nor Jamet … Rostaing (Ampodium, La Landonne, Cote blonde), Stephane Ogier (Mon Village, Reserve … if not Belle Helene and Lancement), Gangloff Barbarine, Clusel-Roch classic and Grandes Places, Noel Champet La Viaillere, Henri Gallet Cote blonde … (and more modern producers like Gerin, Monteillet …)
Hermitage: if not JL Chave nor Chapoutier (4 diff. vineyards) nor Jaboulet … Domaine des Remizieres (Emilie), Sorrel (regular and Greal), Colombier … Faurie, Belle …
Verset is/was an excellent producer … but he was not THAT much better than Clape/Allemand/R.Michel … and the actual prices are simply crazy and caused only by rarity …
Kirkland 2016 Cornas - $14.99.
These wines are all over the map in style: Guigal all overoaked; Ogier also overoaked, though I’ve heard he is dialing that back; Gangloff the poster child for oak; Clusel-Roch a producer really rising in the hierarchy IMO; not familiar with Champet and Gallet. Chapoutier, one word: boring; Jaboulet I have not tried in recent vintages since their long wander through the desert; Remizieres generally too ripe for my tastes; Colombier used to be overoaked, don’t know about recently. etc., etc.
Point being, there is huge variation of wines and styles in each region alone, it’s impossible to make blanket statements about how one of the big three compares to the others. You have to know the producer.
Alan,
Great points as usual - and great catching up in person last week 
That was fun . . .
Cheers!
I see it as, if there are more demand and interest the prices will go up. Also, with inflation and currency rates changing things will increase in price unless the dollar gets stronger.
Interesting.
I’ll dispute that one. I’ve never had a Clape or R. Michel reach the heights of 90 Verset. I’ve had the 90 version of both other producers multiple times.
Also make good golf balls … as rare as a Verset.
Graillot’s entire lineup still seems like excellent value in the Northern Rhone. And why not just buy Halcon Syrah Alturas around $30 instead? If you love Cornas, you shouldn’t miss it imo
I think we just have different tastes. I personally prefer Allemand or Clape from a good year over Guigal, Ogier, or Belle Hellene from the same vintage irrespective of the price differences. I didn’t think I was particularly oak sensitive but man those cote roties come off as excessively sweet and lacking in some freshness (to my palate). Hermitage is much more debatable IMO.
I like the theory that St. Joseph starts to improve over time. That seems very plausible given how tricky it is to profitably farm at $25/bottle.
Is anybody biting on the Robert Michel offer from RWC? I’d sure like to try all of those but don’t have a sense of the value v quality.
Don’t do it.