Yeah I went and looked at JLL ratings and he doesn’t seem to like the Coteaux bottling much.
Alan,
If Ogier is overoaked for you, you haven´t tasted anything close to maturity from him. I have tasted through all of his single vineyards (18) 3 weeks ago … stunning wines - and they age magnificently (I know the wines since 1990 - almost no new oak now except sometimes Belle Helene, used barrels, btw from Liger-Belair)
Gangloff: La Sereine Noire can be a bit too much, but La Barbarine is very fine …
Sure, if you don´t like and accept oak aging at all - stay away from these producers … but that doesn´t say anything about quality, only about personal taste.
BTW, I had a simply stunning La Mouline 1987 recently: absolutely no oak detectable, just a great mature wine …
No idea about the offer - and prices … but if they are reasonable and the vintages good and in good condition, I´d buy any time.
I had some outstanding bottles of Robert Michel, especially La Geynale … 1990, 1991, 1995 …
but I wouldn´t pay a fortune … not for R.Michel, and not for Verset.
Prices for Guigal’s la las seem pretty stable where everything is going up. Also I have occasionally bought wines from the less ripe vintages and they have been rewarding such as 1993 and 1994. Matured beautifully and drinking well.
Got some really well priced offers for modern ones ( far less than some of the Cornas’). Don’t need either, but the Guigals are for me the more compelling.
Gerhard, curious what you might be familiar with here:
1989 Cornas Coteaux
1989 Cornas La Geynale
1991 Cornas Coteaux
1995 Cornas La Geynale [ex-domaine]
1998 Cornas Coteaux [ex-domaine]
2000 Cornas Coteaux [ex-domaine]
2001 Cornas La Geynale
2003 Cornas La Geynale [ex-domaine]
2004 Cornas La Geynale [ex-domaine]
2005 Cornas Coteaux [ex-domaine]
2005 Cornas La Geynale
2006 Cornas La Geynale [ex-domaine]
$150 per sold as a set only… too rich for me but I might go in with 12 people to line them all up at a tasting for the education.
I had the 90 Verset before and although good, it wasn’t any great shakes, awe-inspiring stop-dead-in-your-tracks-great.
These are (I think) the ones I´ve tasted:
1989 Cornas Coteaux
1991 Cornas Coteaux
1995 Cornas La Geynale [ex-domaine]
2000 Cornas Coteaux [ex-domaine]
2001 Cornas La Geynale
2005 Cornas Coteaux [ex-domaine]
1989 is good,
1991 is outstanding (and Geynale even better),
1995 is fine,
2000 is ok,
2001 is fine,
2005 is very good (but quite young).
Please note that all wines are in a traditional style with a lot of structure, and 2001-2006 should be still quite youthful,
so not to everybodys taste …
It´s not a bad idea to make a tasting with this parcel … 150 per is not really a bargain.
The '90 Verset is very good. But I preferred the '90 Chave Hermitage.
The group tasting idea is great! I get that the wines are selling at a premium, but they are in a vertical lot, many from the domaine. I’m not sure how else you could assemble this lot here in the States. I’d do it. Be sure to toss in some successor bottling for comparison, like the Paris Geynale bottling.
I honestly wonder how much of the “I prefer Hermitage” opinion is really an “I prefer Chave” opinion.
Chave is the pinnacle. Just speaking solely to cornas and the comparison that clape and R Michel are at the same level as verset.
Exactly. There’s chave and then everyone else.
You and I disagree on Clape, I obviously like it more than you. I’ve had aged Clape that I felt was just as good as similarly aged Verset. But while I’ve had a few RMichel wines that I really liked, I never thought they quite reached the level of either of the other two. And the Paris Geynale bottlings have yet to move me at all, despite evolving in quality since the nephew took over.
In the ’90 vintage context that preceded the above posts, on or around that year, in addition to Chave, I’ve had Jaboulet (one of the greatest NRhone I’ve had), Greal, and Faurie that were wondrously awesome.
The latter. Chave is Chave.
Yes, I’m an oak-aphobe, particularly with Syrah. It is always dominant on Gangloff’s Barbarine, which I taste young almost every year. And, for me, it never “integrates”, whatever that means. It just changes, and IMO tragically masks the beauty of the Syrah fruit. Frankly, I think that about many Bordeaux that see more than about 50% new oak. Fortunately, there are a number of high quality Rhone producers who don’t use much if any new oak.
Right, La Chapelle 1990 is (imo) the greatest Northern Rhone wine in 1990 … and maybe between 1978 and 2000+ …
so it is (was) not only Chave …
With the new regime it´s more difficult at Jaboulet …
+1 Oak and syrah hardly ever “integrate” into something “better”.
That’s what I think too - I’ve never had a Hermitage from any other producer that has been remotely as exciting or great as Chave. Admittedly, I’ve not had the 90 Jaboulet, but I’ve not had a Jaboulet I’ve ever been particularly impressed by. Frankly, older vintages of Guigal Hermitage (like an 83 I recently had) have been considerably better.
So I think when people say they prefer Hermitage to Cornas, they prefer Chave to Cornas. Which is a completely legitimate view - I love Chave, and it’s great (and importantly for a region not always known for it, it’s consistently great). I wish I had more! But it makes a “Hermitage” vs Cornas comparison a bit unfair.
Greg, just picking up on your post, but I don’t think Guigal & Jaboulet are in the same ball-park in the 80’s. I think Jaboulet outshines everyone (including Chave) in that decade as a whole and certainly Guigal.
Almost any vintage pre-'91 I’ll take Jaboulet over Chave. Anything post 90, Chave.
Stick me in the same boat as Mark & Gerhard - I’ll also take almost all Hermitage over almost all Cornas every day, assuming mature wines.