I don’t judge books by their cover, but I admit to a slight pre-judgement of a wine if it is under a screw cap. Not entirely rational on my part, but subliminally the screw cap seems to say to me “don’t take me too seriously” at best, and maybe “don’t expect much” at worst. I am wrong. Tonight we had wine from two bottles that are under screw cap. While neither was serious perhaps, both were very tasty and enjoyable, representative of place, and definitely in our wheelhouse. What has been your experience?
Jim,
Thanks for the note. You KNOW I am a huge proponent of wines under screw cap. My big question - do you think you might have found these ‘serious’ had they been under natural cork or DIAM? Just wondering . . .
Cheers
Larry, these wines were damn good.
I am using the qualifier of maybe not “serious” because of some in the audience who may discount the quality of these wines with both being entry level wines from producers who offer much more. Cheers.
P.S. I didn’t previously pick up that you were a big proponent of screw cap.
Jim,
Thanks for the clarification. It’s always interesting when folks have ‘pre-conceived notions’ that manifest themselves in how something is viewed, regardless of the actual outcome (if that makes sense).
To me, it’s similar to folks that for so long complained that a 100% grenache was a ‘lesser’ wine because it ‘lacked’ something. They were comparing it to, perhaps, a traditional CdP rather than looking at it for its own merits. I think the tide has turned on that concept - hopefully it will with screwcaps as well . . .
And believe me - I am not anti-cork at all and never have been. I think that there ARE many who have a negative knee jerk reaction to screw caps, and those opinions are oftentimes based on incorrect ‘conventional wisdoms’ like wine does not breathe under screw caps (wrong). wine does not develop under screw caps (wrong), etc. I have had unbelievably beautiful wines under cork - but when I worked at Fess Parker, I also experienced wines that we had carefully crafted over a two year period that were ruined 2 days after bottling due to TCA.
Cheers.
So here’s another thread about screwcaps but as most people know, there’s no reason to bottle with cork today. It’s an artifact of the 1600s when material science was unable to manufacture a product that could expand to its original shape after having been compressed. They had no other way to ensure a seal. Today there are many ways to ensure a tight seal and it’s ludicrous that people still have a fetish about a packaging product from centuries ago.
I’m always happy to see wines under screwcaps because it indicates to me that the wine maker cares more about the product than about satisfying the superstitions of some customers.
Glad you liked these wines. You should look for more.
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Make sure that you don’t miss the part where I wrote “I am wrong” about my preconceptions? ![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
Sorry if this a redundant thread; I did a quick search before posting and but must have missed it.
(As Mr Dangerfield used to say “tough crowd!”)
Glad you are learning your preconceptions are wrong with regard to screwcaps! And glad you had two very good wines!
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Couple of points:
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Don’t remember the vintage, but I think it was at least 20 years ago. Plumpjack made a statement by selling their Cab for $100 with a cork and $110 with a screwcap.
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I am a firm believer in screwcap but unlike Greg do not consider it a proven technology for wines produced for long bottle age. Will wines bottled under screwcap hold up for 20, 30, 50 or more years? I think we can cautiously say ‘yes’. Will they evolve the same way as wines bottled under cork? I don’t know.
FWIW, I usually produce two wines from my vineyard. Winemaking and elevage are very similar for the two; the big difference is vine age. The basic bottling comes from vines averaging about 30 years of age. The top bottling, from vines averaging about 60 years of age. The basic bottling is under screwcap. The top bottling is under cork.
Dan Kravitz
I would be 1000% happier if all wines were under screw cap.
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Jim,
I certainly saw that and appreciate the notes and the commentary. I for one am just a bit ‘gun shy’ because of the wrong ‘conceptions’ folks have continued to state on this board and others regarding wines bottled under screw cap. One of the most interesting comebacks I continue to hear - ‘show me research that wines under screw cap can age wonderfully’ . . . and my comeback is ‘show me research that wine under cork can’ 
Yep, ‘uncertainty’ scares the begeebies out of folks and I understand that - but without having an open mind and a willingness to try, one will never know . . .
So thanks for trying - and the open mind ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
Cheers
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Plumpjack has been bottling their high end Reserve Cab under both natural cork and screw cap since the 1997 vintage - so it is possible to now compare/contrast these wines at nearly 25 years of age.
I know that Tablas has done lots of bottlings under both closures as well - and wrote an interesting blog post about their 2006s I believe not too long ago.
Cheers
People have been making the “it hasn’t been proven for wines that require long bottle age” excuse for close to 25 years. Sooner or later it becomes a ridiculous excuse. I think you have a couple more weeks before that happens.
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So what are the characteristics of say 20 year aging under screw cap vs cork. Obviously favourable comparisons have been made from what you say. Do the desired secondary and tertiary flavours develop at the same rate?
For me it’s a given that screw cap is the better option for shorter term aging and where fresheness is primary goal. Technical corks need to be brought into the mix too.
I have been cellaring screw capped wines for 20 years. They develop just fine. They are a little slower, but the maturing elements are there.
I have zero questions about the efficacy of screw caps. Zero.
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Richard,
Have you personally had any wines under screw cap at 15-25 years of age? The problem I run across is that folks have not - but make the assumption that these wines will not develop ‘the same’ because of ‘assumptions’ about screw caps.
Here is a post I made way back in 2015 looking at a blind tasting conducted at VinItaly with wines at about 10 years of age under different closures to a number of wine professionals where the screw cap wines were preferred:
And Harvey Steiman at the Wine Spectator was involved in a tasting at Pebble Beach Food and Wine back in 2008 looking at 3 Plumpjack Reserve Cabs under both closures and this is what he wrote then:
We tasted the 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2005 vintages at Pebble Beach Food & Wine. In each case, a show of hands among the 40 or so wine drinkers in attendance divided pretty evenly among those who liked the wine from the screw-capped bottle best, those who preferred the bottle under cork, and those who had no preference.
On my scorecard, I liked the freshness and brightness of the 2000 screw-capped wine better, although the cork-finished wine got richer as it sat in the glass. I called the 2003 even, with the cork showing a more complete nose, the twist-off tighter structure and more vibrancy. The '04 went to the cork, although the twisty showed more lifted flavors. The capped '05, not yet released, was slightly more appealing to me.
It wasn’t blind, which would have been better, but basically what we had was a statistical tie.
At first glance, this might seem a defeat for the screw cap. If the screw-capped wines aren’t better than those under cork, why switch? But that ignores the twin elephants in the living room: cork taint, and bottle variation. . . .
In this tasting, as in virtually all of the many chances I’ve had in recent years to compare wines that have been in bottle for several years, the screw-capped wines tended to taste fruitier but less developed. But over time, they do develop, and after about 10 years or so, there’s no discernible difference between a screw-capped wine and a cork-finished wine, as long as it’s a perfect cork.
How do we know? Because they’ve been running comparisons in Australia for years now. We can sample screw-capped wines that are 30 or 40 years old, and they still taste fresh and complete. We can compare high-end red wines bottled in the mid 1990s side by side with cork-finished bottles of the same wines. If anyone tells you there’s no data, they’re ignoring a growing mountain of evidence from Australia. What? If it happens south of the equator, it doesn’t count?
Some pundits have raised the specter of reduction in screw-capped wines, their theory being that the virtually oxygen-free environment in the bottle promotes the development of sulfides, which are stinky. You would expect a lot of stinky screw-capped bottles, but that’s simply not the case. Screw-capped wines taste fresh, almost always. Besides, that’s a winemaking issue. If the winemaker controls sulfur and aerates the wine enough before bottling, it’s not a problem.
What’s the bottom line for red wines? Chris Hatcher, chief winemaker for Foster’s, and a screw-cap believer, sums it up this way: For the first five years, the cork-finished wine develops more rapidly while the screw-capped wine shows more fruit. At five to 10 years, the cork’s maturation plateaus while the screw-cap continues to mature. After 10 years, the maturation characteristics are similar.
But in my experience, cork-finished wines are all over the map in terms of soundness after 10 years. Some will be corky. Some will be oxidized by corks that didn’t quite do their job. Any wine collector knows that drill. But if virtually every screw-capped wine is equally good, doesn’t that make the decision a no-brainer? I think we’re past the tipping point.
And one more data point - this one from Jason Haas looking at their 2006 Cotes de Tablas bottled under both cork and screw cap at a retrospective tasting in 2016:
The cork/screwcap contrast on the Cotes de Tablas was really fascinating, and provoked the most discussion around the table. We split evenly as to which we preferred, with some people opting for the depth and weight of the cork finish and other choosing the clarity and vibrancy of the screwcap finish. I preferred the brightness of the screwcap, but I totally understand why others (including my dad) preferred the cork. If this sort of thing interests you, you might want to check out my older blog Bottle Variation, Very Old Wines and the Cork/Screwcap Dilemma, spurred by a conversation with Bonny Doon’s Randall Grahm in which he posits that most wines, in the long run, probably do benefit from screwcap’s protection from oxidation. Of course, the $100,000 question is whether most wines are drunk before that point or after.
This does not directly answer your questions but should give some additional insight here.
Cheers
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Richard,
One more point - will specific secondary and tertiary aromas and flavors develop in the same manner under screw cap as they may do under cork? Possibly - but show me that they ALWAYS develop under natural cork in a ‘consistent’ manner whatsoever? There is so much bottle variation due to the variability of wines under natural cork that one can no longer rest on the laurels of natural cork in a manner that they used to. How often do you open 2 bottles of wine under natural cork at 20 years of age and they are ‘identical’? My guess - since we’re dealing with ‘guesses’ here - is that it is a very very low number.
Care to disagree or discuss that?
Cheers.
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I’ve only tasted the Henri Bourgeois Sancerre Les Baronnes…but it is indeed a serious wine. So is Cloudy Bay…if you like NZ Sauvignon Blanc. If price matters, the average price for the 2005 Domaine des Baumard Quarts de Chaume is $90, that too is under screwcap.
Thank you Greg. Almost all of the technical problems that we have with wines we import are to do with the use of bark cork, which is to say that they are entirely avoidable. Very frustrating. As you say, the use of screwcap indicates that the producer cares about the integrity of their wine and is prepared to deal with consumer prejudice.
I’ve actually had more screwcap failures than DIAM failures. Don’t think I’ve ever had a wine go bad due to DIAM. Had a couple screwcap failures - once due to physical trauma compromising the screwcap, the other because the glue somehow came undone, decoupling the entire screwcap capsule from the glass.
Yep, screw caps are far from perfect - and they are prone to some issues. If a bottle gets heavily banged, the seal of the screw cap can be compromised, leading to massive oxidation. And if the cap is not applied correctly, which has happened to me sparingly, the same can occur.
What we do NOT know with DIAMS is how they develop over time VERSUS NATUAL CORK. Since they ‘look’ similar, folks expect them to ‘act’ similar. In the case of White Burgs, they have become the ‘gold standard’ since they seem to have ‘solved the problem’ with pre-mox . . . which screw caps may due as well but we’ll never probably know because certain regions are less prone to truly experiment with them (save one or two producers . . .).
I like DIAMS as well and know many wineries that use them and are really happy with them. And I understand why - again, if it quacks like a duck . . . BUT there have been papers written about wines appearing ‘different’ under DIAMS versus Natural corks, that they are ‘missing’ something. Again, nothing that’s discussed here for the most part.
Cheers.