TN: 2010 Domaine Ramonet Bâtard-Montrachet

WINE TALK
21

Had the 09 and 10 Ruchottes over the Christmas holiday - 09 sherried and past it, 10 fabulous and young - 2010 was the last time I bought any whites to cellar not sealed with DIAM…

22

The curious thing for me is that a number of 2010s aren’t premoxed, but advanced. And many that aren’t advanced are gaining weight and turning flabby. Now maybe that’s just a function of time and 2010s will be full-on oxidized with enough time in bottle, but the vintage does strike me as having a baffling evolution thus far, and below expectations. Of course, when it is on, it is a great vintage.

23

One difference between 2010 and 2014 is (I think) that in the interim Ramonet stopped showing wines from barrel. In the old days, the family used to hold quite a lot of tastings, and obviously sampling (and the topping up that it makes necessary) can introduce quite a bit of oxygen into a wine, especially if it is a small cuvée of just a couple of barrels. Today, Ramonet presents tastings exclusively of bottled wines, which I think is a very good policy.

24

Interesting. Given what was expected of the 2010 vintage, your experiences are worrisome. Whether advanced, flabby, or overtly premoxed, it sounds to me like Ramonets are not a safe bet…particularly at the prices commanded. Based on that, and unless I would hear that Ramonet started using DIAM by the 2014 vintage (which they apparently have not), there is no reason to hope that the 2014’s…as wonderful as people say they are…are not going to suffer a similar fate. And, not wanting to pour more WB money down the drain, nor wanting to drink expensive WB young, I should continue to pass…sadly.

25

No cork sealed wine is a safe bet, particularly not white wines…

26

Fixed it for you…

27

Have only had the Morgeots and it is fabulous.

28

I opened a Ruchottes over the weekend. Great wine, still drinking very young and tight though. For some reason, some was left in the decanter in the cellar for 48 hours. It showed even better than when the bottle had been newly opened/ decanted.

29

The 2014 Ramonet Batard Montrachet is absolutely AMAZING! I haven’t had it in a few months but several samples over the last 2 years are pretty consistent. It is the real deal.

30

Well, currently at $700, I will wait with interest to see how it is lasting at the 8-year-out annual tasting.

31

Opened a 04 BBM last weekend and it was superb. Upstaged the 88 Krug and 17 Dauvissat Preusses (paired with a seafood tower). Thankfully very young and with that Ramonet balance and elegance. Hopefully it bodes well for the other 2 bottles from the same lot.

Not exactly a steal but it was 30% less than that last month from 2 separate retailers.

1 Like
32

Of course, it is the randomness of premox bottle to bottle that is so vexing…in the sense that an unaffected bottle that is great reminds you of what you are missing and makes you sad and makes you consider buying WB again, and an affected bottle is of course sad in and of itself and if dumped raises the effective price per bottle of what you paid to get great wine…which was too expensive to start with. Now, if money were no object, I would continue to buy and not let it affect me if I had to pour any number of bottles down the sink at 10+ years of age…I would just enjoy the good ones, even if the effective price of that $300 bottle was now $400-600. What the hell!

So, when a I hear that someone had a great, amazing bottle, it never makes me optimistic that the scourge is a thing of the past…it is just a painful reminder of what has been lost. Are people here pretty resigned to drinking their pricey grand crus in a great vintage at 5 years of age? Or are they going for it and aging their $300-400+ bottles and accepting that a certain percentage will need to be dumped? Or keeping their fingers crossed and hoping that all these little measures have finally cured an unknown and poorly understood disease? Or only buying under DIAM?

It has occurred to me that whenever a WB topic comes up, I chime in just to piss on the parade. Sorry.

33

Some combination of the above:

  1. Leaning towards producers that seem less susceptible, and favoring DIAM (but I don’t restrict myself to DIAM-only bottlings). Also gathering as much info as possible from tasting notes before buying
  2. Planning to drink just a tad earlier, but certainly not GCs at 5 years of age
  3. Accepting some % may go bad
34

I haven’t bought a GC white burg in quite a few years now. And frankly very few PCs either, with the exception of Chablis, and some of Bouchard’s under Diam. There are just so many excellent white wines out there from France, Italy, Spain, Austria, Germany, etc., at much more affordable prices than high end Burgs, it’s hard to justify those spends, with the known risk.

35
  1. Buy and drink village and 1er early. They tend to be more approachable early these days which probably contributes to the pox.
  2. Buy pre-premox vintages and producers. Often less than current release pricing.
  3. Pay the premium for the non premox producers if you want to age them.
36

I haven’t found any other white varietals that fill the WB void for me…I always seem to focus on what aspect of them doesn’t taste like WB! I am not saying this is a good thing, my abnormally narrow focus, but it is what it is. Then again, I am not very excited about non-Pinot red varietals, other than Northen Rhône and Barolo/Barbaresco by a select few producers…again, not saying this is an admirable trait…but it is mine.

37

Had the 2014 Jean-Claude Ramonet Puligny-Montrachet Les Enseignères with lunch today. It is extremely fresh and youthful. Very Puligny with elegant white peach fruit and white flowers a plenty. There’s a touch of barrel toast, some mint and aniseed too. It has flesh coupled with great clarity and is beautifully proportioned and balanced. The finish is fine and persistent.

38

This dilemma sounds like paying to see a Van Morrison concert.

When it’s on, it’s on! But other times, when he’s going through the motions, you feel like a chump. But how to know in advance? [shrug.gif]

39

  1. Yes, buy lower level stuff and drink early…you aren’t investing that much, and you don’t expect them at do that much with extended aging, so you aren’t taking much of a chance and you aren’t missing that much by drinking them young.

  2. Pre-premox vintages would be basically 1993 and earlier, and I have not found them at reasonable pricing from better producers. Plus you would have to start worrying, I think, about oxidation rather than premox…whether many WB’s with close to or over 30 years of bottle age would lose their freshness and vibrancy. Unless one likes their WB old and tired.

  3. Aside from the thought that any producers bottling under DIAM may be “non premox producers” going forward, the only relatively “non premox producers” (or low incidence) I am aware of might be Coche (though whether that is true since the son took over I am not sure, and some say they have had some premoxed Coche…though I would accept that they are lower incidence) and Raveneau, and for me those wines are not available through regular channels, and thus the prices are more absurd than simply paying a premium. Perhaps PYCM is lower incidence but I have had a premoxed bottle and have heard of others. I would love to hear of any other producers considered “non premox”, as in my opinion Leflaive once was until they became the poster child for premox.

40

Robert, wine drinking is a pleasurable thing. Your posts are more negative than half a battery factory. There’s no point whining like a Chevrolet diff about everything. You’ll cop a few losses along the way but I reckon you’ve had some good wine drinking moments over the years. I hope you have.