TN: 2016 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

[David_Glasser]

MacArthur has had it for a few months. Lots of places showing on Wine Searcher.

[Mattstolz]

does anyone know when this wine will actually start hitting shop shelves?

I already purchased mine from Vin Chicago and Binnys…

Cheers,
JP

does anyone know when this wine will actually start hitting shop shelves?

Its on the shelves up here in the Northeast.

is that true of the 2015 Riservas for y’all as well? Ive bought a couple 2016 normale from Envoyer as pre arrivals, but normally around me it hits shelves at the same time as the Riservas

[Martin_Zwick]

Just found a TN on a German wine-board from last november and no mention of oak and certainly not vanilla. They also praised the quality and QPR, in Germany around 30 Euro.

Barbaresco von Produttori Barbaresco 2016

“Im Zalto Universal verkostet: strahlendes transparentes kirschrot; eher ausgeprägte ätherische Nase, rote frische Beeren (insbesondere Himbeere und Preiselbeere), etwas sanfter Pflaumenbrand, mit Luft heller kühler Tabak, dezentes Unterholz, im Hintergrund animierender Hauch Gummi, lädt richtiggehend zum Schnüffeln ein; am Gaumen frische ausgeprägte rote Säure (rote Ribisel), die momentan sogar das ausgeprägte feinkörnige Tannin überdeckt, der Gaumen wird momentan von einem etwas herben aber angenehmen Grundton beherrscht, etwas erdige Mineralität und brauner Kräutertee, dies spiegelt einen schönen Wiederpart zu dem 2.ten etwas likörigen fruchtigen Eindruck am Gaumen wieder, diese drei Komponenten (Säure, likörige Frucht, herbe Mineralik) müssen aber noch zusammenwachsen, Luft und Wärme zeigen aber schön den Weg zur Harmonie, den der Wein nehmen wird, 93 RPunkte

nach 7 Tagen Reifung in 0,25l Flasche: schöne harmonische rote Nase, rote reife Beeren, Kirsch, auch etwas Kirschzuckerln, im Hintergrund schöne frische grüne Kräuternoten, etwas Gummi; am Gaumen frische rotbeerige Säure, feinkörniges Tannin, mittelgewichtiger Körper, schöner aromatischer Gaumen, frisch, rotbeerig, etwas grüne Kräutertöne, dezente Kirschnote im Nachhall, feine Länge, zeigt eine schöne Harmonie nach 7 Tagen, trotz der Jugend schon sehr süffig.”

93/100

[David_Glasser]

does anyone know when this wine will actually start hitting shop shelves?

I already purchased mine from Vin Chicago and Binnys…

Cheers,
JP

does anyone know when this wine will actually start hitting shop shelves?

Its on the shelves up here in the Northeast.

is that true of the 2015 Riservas for y’all as well? Ive bought a couple 2016 normale from Envoyer as pre arrivals, but normally around me it hits shelves at the same time as the Riservas

Haven’t seen any 2016 Riservas, don’t think they’re released yet.

[L_e_e_H_olland]

Martin, I agree that it’s a great wine and a great QPR. I only posted to say that my bottles have taken rather significant time to reach that point, as opposed to being great from the first sip.

I have willing conceded that I struggle describing tasting notes. I am new here and relatively new to drinking wine. It’s probably a combination of tobacco, tea, clove, anise, which are all regularly noted on cellar tracker and elsewhere, that my nose/palate is oversimplifying to vanilla and oak. Whatever it is, I agree that is comes into perfect balance by day two.

I hope we both get to enjoy several more bottles as I think this is going to be stunning with age.

[Fred_Davis]

I’m considering buying a few bottles to drink, but what do people think about the price evolution of this bottle over time?

[David_Glasser]

I’m considering buying a few bottles to drink, but what do people think about the price evolution of this bottle over time?

If you’re contemplating buying now vs. in a year or so, I doubt there will be much change unless someone rates it 98-100 points, but most critics have already weighed in. Longer-term, as they increase in age and scarcity, retail prices on Wine Searcher seem to jump at ~30 years.

[Fred_Davis]

I’m considering buying a few bottles to drink, but what do people think about the price evolution of this bottle over time?

If you’re contemplating buying now vs. in a year or so, I doubt there will be much change unless someone rates it 98-100 points, but most critics have already weighed in. Longer-term, as they increase in age and scarcity, retail prices on Wine Searcher seem to jump at ~30 years.

That’s good to know. It’s interesting how the price will be higher at very old age (due to scarcity) than it will be at peak drinking time (say around 10 years).

[Alan_Newman]

Per Wine Spectator: 7,500 cases imported.

How many cases have WBers bought?

[mike_pobega]

2 for me. lol

[Mattstolz]

I’m considering buying a few bottles to drink, but what do people think about the price evolution of this bottle over time?

If you’re contemplating buying now vs. in a year or so, I doubt there will be much change unless someone rates it 98-100 points, but most critics have already weighed in. Longer-term, as they increase in age and scarcity, retail prices on Wine Searcher seem to jump at ~30 years.

That’s good to know. It’s interesting how the price will be higher at very old age (due to scarcity) than it will be at peak drinking time (say around 10 years).

peak drinking for these extends way past 10 years. Ive had 40 year old produttori normales that were just killer wines. it might START at 10 but sweet spot I think is older.

anyways, I got an email offering 08s Riservas for $68 today. the price doesn’t change much for a decent amount of time after release

[Fred_Davis]

If you’re contemplating buying now vs. in a year or so, I doubt there will be much change unless someone rates it 98-100 points, but most critics have already weighed in. Longer-term, as they increase in age and scarcity, retail prices on Wine Searcher seem to jump at ~30 years.

That’s good to know. It’s interesting how the price will be higher at very old age (due to scarcity) than it will be at peak drinking time (say around 10 years).

peak drinking for these extends way past 10 years. Ive had 40 year old produttori normales that were just killer wines. it might START at 10 but sweet spot I think is older.

anyways, I got an email offering 08s Riservas for $68 today. the price doesn’t change much for a decent amount of time after release

Thanks for the insight. I had seen old Produttori vintages, but wasn’t sure if they’d still be good. I suppose, though, the prices on some of those bottles suggest they would be still be good (Index)

I once bought a 40yr old nebbiolo from Valtellina and it was undrinkable. I didn’t pay a lot, but enough for it to make me highly skeptical of old bottles.

What do you think it is about Produttori that makes it endure much longer than an average Barbaresco?–assuming this is factually correct. They’re known to be a quality producer, but I don’t know how to distinguish which nebbiolos will last longer than others.

[Martin_Zwick]

We had a 1970 Reserva Rabaja yesterday in Copenhagen. TAK Claus.

And the wine was impressive, quite firm and still a bit funky. Lovely Barbaresco.

[IlkkaL]

I once bought a 40yr old nebbiolo from Valtellina and it was undrinkable. I didn’t pay a lot, but enough for it to make me highly skeptical of old bottles.

What do you think it is about Produttori that makes it endure much longer than an average Barbaresco?–assuming this is factually correct. They’re known to be a quality producer, but I don’t know how to distinguish which nebbiolos will last longer than others.

Not sure what is an average Barbaresco but a typical high quality Barbaresco made in the traditional style certainly tends to be very long-lived and Produttori is no exception to this rule. As for Valtellina, well they have the same grape variety and there are especially aromatic similarities but it’s a different expression of Nebbiolo from a totally different climate and landscape.

[Mattstolz]

Thanks for the insight. I had seen old Produttori vintages, but wasn’t sure if they’d still be good. I suppose, though, the prices on some of those bottles suggest they would be still be good (Index)

I once bought a 40yr old nebbiolo from Valtellina and it was undrinkable. I didn’t pay a lot, but enough for it to make me highly skeptical of old bottles.

What do you think it is about Produttori that makes it endure much longer than an average Barbaresco?–assuming this is factually correct. They’re known to be a quality producer, but I don’t know how to distinguish which nebbiolos will last longer than others.

I agree with the post just above this, there’s something about traditionally made langhe wines that just give them really long lives. I would say a wine from a decent producer from the langhe would be more the exception than the rule if it wasn’t still hummin along at 30-40 years. Valtellina is a little bit more cool climate, lighter wine than Langhe is, so that could be what happened with yours (I’m not positive, but some nebbiolos outside of the Langhe also get blended fairly heavily with other grapes… especially 40 years ago).

the other thing that I always try to caution people about with older Nebbiolo is that they are VERY deceptive. its happened to me before where I pulled the cork in the morning for a meal, smelled it, got really worried cuz it smelled old and musty. Smelled it and tasted again 4 hours later, same thing. at hour 6, still old. Then all of a sudden somewhere around hour 8 everything changes (one time I had even opened a backup bottle already by this point). the color improves, the aroma adds fruit, the body is better. but if you don’t give it enough time and write it off, then you miss that.

[David_Bu3ker]

At 40 years one has to wonder about provenance, as well as the underlying wine.

[Fred_Davis]

Thanks for the insight. I had seen old Produttori vintages, but wasn’t sure if they’d still be good. I suppose, though, the prices on some of those bottles suggest they would be still be good (Index)

I once bought a 40yr old nebbiolo from Valtellina and it was undrinkable. I didn’t pay a lot, but enough for it to make me highly skeptical of old bottles.

What do you think it is about Produttori that makes it endure much longer than an average Barbaresco?–assuming this is factually correct. They’re known to be a quality producer, but I don’t know how to distinguish which nebbiolos will last longer than others.

I agree with the post just above this, there’s something about traditionally made langhe wines that just give them really long lives. I would say a wine from a decent producer from the langhe would be more the exception than the rule if it wasn’t still hummin along at 30-40 years. Valtellina is a little bit more cool climate, lighter wine than Langhe is, so that could be what happened with yours (I’m not positive, but some nebbiolos outside of the Langhe also get blended fairly heavily with other grapes… especially 40 years ago).

the other thing that I always try to caution people about with older Nebbiolo is that they are VERY deceptive. its happened to me before where I pulled the cork in the morning for a meal, smelled it, got really worried cuz it smelled old and musty. Smelled it and tasted again 4 hours later, same thing. at hour 6, still old. Then all of a sudden somewhere around hour 8 everything changes (one time I had even opened a backup bottle already by this point). the color improves, the aroma adds fruit, the body is better. but if you don’t give it enough time and write it off, then you miss that.

I wonder if Langhe wines then might become more valued relative to other wines given their long-lived nature and the fact the quality has improved a lot over the last 20+ years. The person who started La Paulee said that in the 1980s, there was little demand for premier crus or even grand crus from Burgundy and so he was able to buy lots of cases of great wine inexpensively. Not sure why there was low demand then, but obviously things are 180 degrees different today.

To your point, I thought perhaps the Valtellina would open up after the initial disappointment so I kept it in the fridge for a week, and tried a sip each day. Unforuntunately, to no avail.

I think I’ll just stick to buying good producers if I’m going to cellar a nebbiolo.

[Fred_Davis]

At 40 years one has to wonder about provenance, as well as the underlying wine.

Certainly true. Not being able to ascertain any of these important facts, I cut my risk by simply not paying a lot. I think the bottle was approximately $30 so I treated it like taking a flyer.

[Fred_Davis]

I once bought a 40yr old nebbiolo from Valtellina and it was undrinkable. I didn’t pay a lot, but enough for it to make me highly skeptical of old bottles.

What do you think it is about Produttori that makes it endure much longer than an average Barbaresco?–assuming this is factually correct. They’re known to be a quality producer, but I don’t know how to distinguish which nebbiolos will last longer than others.

Not sure what is an average Barbaresco but a typical high quality Barbaresco made in the traditional style certainly tends to be very long-lived and Produttori is no exception to this rule. As for Valtellina, well they have the same grape variety and there are especially aromatic similarities but it’s a different expression of Nebbiolo from a totally different climate and landscape.

This is good feedback. I’m going to avoid the phrase “average Barbaresco” in the future as it doesn’t mean anything.

[Fred_Davis]

We had a 1970 Reserva Rabaja yesterday in Copenhagen. TAK Claus.

And the wine was impressive, quite firm and still a bit funky. Lovely Barbaresco.

6D544AD2-14C0-4460-9FA0-6C3A185DFE23.jpeg

Sounds nice. I’m going to pick up a couple of bottles of the 2016 Produttori based on all the comments here. For the same price, available here is the Oddero Barolo 2013 which is also enticing and don’t know which to favor.