TN: Frenchie's Grower Bubbly Event In the OC

WINE TALK
21

Great fun and super notes gang. Just for laughs, a number of these—or their older cousins–made an appearance a little more than 3 years ago at Leslie Fisher’s bubbly and fried chicken event. I reproduce my thoughts on those below.

2002 Pierre Gimmonet & Fils Special Club

A generous contribution by Ramon, who was not able to come (he, Gerry Frayer, Rob Winn and Francine Haight all sent their best to everyone), gingerbread sniffs meld with pear and apple tart. Definitive, this is tremendously strong on the entry. Very unripe apple and a kiss of bitter herbs—I definitely want to say watercress—makes for an intriguing presentation. The presence of this wine is what stands out, the body and structure. Probably decades to go

Larmandier-Bernier NV Longitude 1er Cru

A bit of smoke and a bit of lime on this bouquet. The carbonation here is very light…it drinks like a sparkly white. Very tangy lemon-lime with a touch of pine needle.

Marc Hebrart Special Club Brut NV

Nose sifts through minerals, flowers, lemon and apple. Palate finds this crisp, fairly clean, apple and lemon replays, nice balance here. I like it.

2013 Patricia Green Cellars Berserker’s Cuvee Pinot Noir

With some swirling, thyme and rosemary sprigs detail red and black cherry scents. To taste, for me, this is still brutally young, flashes of sweet cherry and red licorice and a spicy side. Just have to give it lots and lots of sleep. 4 years at least.

Frank was very kind to let me try a Mousse Effusion on my recent trip. I liked it (though I confess I liked the Vilmart Cuvee Rubis poured the same night much more :wink: ).

Heather has the Mignon PM stocked at the restaurant, so we may give it a try at some point soon.

Salud

Mike

22

I see! You were influenced, pressured by Frank and Brig to ‘up’ your score on number 9! Was the wine truly better 30 minutes later, or was it the pressure from your ‘cohorts’ that changed your grade? neener

23

Andrew, I have found the Marguet and Marie-Courtin wines, both who make zero dose style, to show what you call ‘depth, texture’ and while I would not call the wines ‘dense’, I would call them balanced in the way I define balance, meaning the wines flow from start to finish across the palate with an energy and evenness that makes them special.

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Andrew, don’t let him pressure you into thinking something else! Stick to your guns like a good Iowan.

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I sure would have liked to be there, but I must not be schmoozing the right people to get an invite [ken.gif]

It would also help if I checked in here more often [wink.gif] dammit

26

Bob, I’ll remember you for next time, I hope!

I know the feeling, however…impossible for me to get invited to local events as well, so I guess I have to host them!

27

Much appreciated, kind sir.

28

I still want to have an all-out Northern Rhone event sometime - either at my house (to eat this massive Flannery Zabuton cut) or a suitable restaurant, which leaves me much lighter in out-of-pocket cost and cleanup!

29

Frank,

The Hebrart BdB is now in the 7-8 g/L dosage range, thought it used to be closer to 9 g/L a few years ago (not sure how long ago the bottle you tasted was disgorged). Among his current offerings, the Rive Gauche, Rive Droite is at 4 g/L, Noces de Craie is at 5 g/L, Special Club is at 6 g/L, and the rest of range tends to be 7-8 g/L. His dosage is MCR so this is going to be sweeter than traditional sugar dosage and not exactly comparable; this is important to keep in mind with dosage as 4 g/L of MCR is going to be sweeter than 4 g/L of traditional sugar dosage.

Personally, I think you would dig the Noces de Craie the most as it is all Pinot Noir from Ay and done in stainless steel with an effort to let the grapes and terroir really show. It is a blend of his holdings in a few vineyards in Ay where he literally has only a few rows of vines in each. The Rive Gauche, Rive Droite is more about the use of wood and the Special Club (while my favorite) is about fruit and blending.

30

Brad, thanks for again contributing to our bubbly talk–I appreciate you making the post.

Last year at Frenchy’s event, someone did bring the Noces de Craie, and I liked it, although I did make a TN comment at the time that I found the wine showing some decadence, yet it remained in balance (akin to what I might say about some instances of Vilmart). A few years back even more, I had the RG/RD, and found that sweet with time in the glass, FWIW. I need to chase down another bottle of the Noces de Craie, and see what I think of it. It would seem too that Hebrart is not doing back label info, as I could not find any on the bottle from over the weekend, nor do any of my past TNs list any. I am committed to taking down back label info now, as I find it helpful for me to keep things in perspective over time, over successive years, and also help others who want the info for comparison to know what bottle I was drinking at that fixed point in time and via what component parts and inputs. I wish more producers would do this disclosure but from the small cadre I keep buying, many of them have back label data as a feature, which I dig.

On the MCR piece, I know Liem talks about it in his book. Do you find a preference for MCR (or not) and can you tell? Just curious. I don’t have enough experience with it yet, nor do I have the producer depth info to know who uses it and who does not.

31

Frenchy, do the N Rhone gig at my house. I’ll host it. Just kick around some dates with me and what format we want to get after and I’ll host it.

32

I’m on the BBQ…

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Because I’d do anything for you, Frankie, (including setting up your mesh wifi and Sonos systems) I bought 4 bottles of the Hebrart, so I could give you the photo you so desired…
IMG_7377 copy.jpg

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Sounds good - busy few months coming up but we’ll see!!! I want to do the big guns, though…gotta make it worth it. I can host at my house, too, but your bbq is better

35

Oh crap, just remembered that I planned to open my lone bottle of 2008 Rivers-Marie Pinot Noir Old Vines Summa during the gig - although with THAT group, the pours would have destroyed that bottle in seconds!

36

Thanks for the tasting notes and the photos.
Sounds like a fun time and an interesting selection of wines.
“A nice state of affairs when a man has to indulge his vices by proxy.”

37

Frank,

The Noces de Craie is a bold wine and with the first vintage of it being 2012, it is even more so. 2012 Pinot Noir tends to be very in your face even without dosage. I have never seen a vintage for Pinot Noir in top locations quite like it - so much fruit and expression, yet also structure and balance.

As far as MCR, I find it to sometimes give the wine a cloying taste and an almost slippery mouthfeel character - especially when young. I also find it to make low dosage wines taste sweeter than they really are and sometimes it sticks out a bit too much. Once you get up into the 7-8 g/L and higher range, I find MCR to make the wine feel heavier (and, again, slippery in the mouth) and then it really sticks out. Depending on the liqueur and sugar dosage mixture, it can take a sugar dosage months or even a year+ to integrate, but overall, I find sugar liqueur to make a more complete and balanced wine. I feel the same way about residual sugar left from the second fermentation - the wine just seems to keep it together better. I won’t say I can always tell whether a wine has MCR or sugar dosage, but when I am given samples of each, I usually prefer the sugar dosage version.

In general, people tend to use MCR because it is easy especially when you don’t have a large production. It is consistent, easy to use, doesn’t spoil, easy to order, etc… People will many times say it is more natural, but I would argue with that. Getting grape must from who knows where, from who knows what grape(s), that is then stripped of everything until it is a neutral sweetener doesn’t sound like something natural to me. A few producers do try to make their own from their own grapes, but that is few and far between and often comes off quite clunky.

As for back label info - don’t always blame the producer. A lot of wines in France/Europe have great, descriptive back labels, but the US import version removes this. The small guys struggle with details that the US requires on the label and so they fill the label up with warnings and importer info and then just leave the informative stuff off.

1 Like
38

Well yes, Frank, Hebrart now offers his BdB and his Rosé in Extra Brut versions. We had the Rosé last night and found it excellent, especially for the very modest price. The dosage was not listed, but it must have only been a gram or two.

39

Look how natural-

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After reading how this is produced it doesn’t seem that different from mega-purple

40

amazing that you can track so many champagnes. My palate cannot.

I’ll have to look at Liem to understand MCR.

I am also frustrated by Special Club bottle shapes and, since I haven’t had many that wow me—an underperforming Massin 2015 recently—will buy no more, though champagne must have more bottle variation than any other region.

I am not enjoying the non dosage wines I’ve had and find them too austere or angular. But maybe that’s because most are too young. I will try Moncuit 08 Brut and E Brut side by side and see which I prefer, though neither non dosage.

Do you think glassware was a factor or were all using the same?

I have been exploring growers but still find my best bubblies from the grand marques. Don’t know if it’s better terroir, better winemaking, better choices, or the blending. Being a burg nut and appreciating vineyard specifics, I want to like those bubblies.