TotalWine BDX Futures LIVE

WINE TALK
41

are you saying that if I ordered (and put a 50% deposit/hold) a future a year ago that is still 9 months from landing stateside, that total shouldn’t have to eat the extra cost change that happened between the time I put a deposit down and arrival of the order? because I would think putting 50% down should lock in the price. just like I would hope retailers who I pay 100% up front on won’t charge me another 40% when it arrives cuz of tariffs either.

I do agree that worst case scenario we should be given a choice. do you still want it yes/no or maybe even do you wanna try to ride out tariffs and hold for another 6 months yes/no

42

This.

43

I think there is a clause there that allows them to charge extra for any duties. If not, they or their lawyers are negligent.

44

You can return the wine at anytime per their policy so this is moot unless terms have changed? It would be unfortunate not to get the wine purchased at the prices agreed to but the safety net should be their return policy. I don’t buy my futures with them any more as they mark up their prices higher than good distributors in the US but I doubt anything has changed.

45

See post 24.

Unless the poster missed some fine print listed elsewhere, Total Wine’s terms prior to announcement of the tariffs do not allow for extra charges for increased duties. I don’t think they can retroactively change terms on prior orders. The question will be whether anyone will bother to sue if TW asks for more money or cancels orders.

46

They could certainly argue force majeure, which would allow them to cancel the contracts

47

Help out a non lawyer, aren’t tariffs an inherent part of importing wine? Would it be hard to argue that an increase in a tariff is unforeseen enough to cancel a contract on?
Also regarding them eating the cost, if things had worked out differently and there been a drop in tariff cost you think they’d have given a refund?

48

Yes, reliably informed that the Tariffs are not an act of God, so Total would be on the hook for it.

49

As I am sure you know, the phrase Act of God is not to be taken literally. (actually, “majeur” just means “major” and has no deistic implications). 9/11 was a force majeur impacting thousands of contracts.

50

There is and has been no tariffs on imports until October 2019. They have not been the cost of importing wine, Federal tax, State tax, freight and fuel plus cost of clearing container.

If this was your local wine merchant would you feel the same? BDX margins are thinner than any other wines, how would you feel about them losing 85-90% on your sale?

51

If purchased before tariffs hit, no, if purchased after, I believe price should be honored, being slow to act isn’t consumers problem.

52

Got a message from TW today that my 2017 futures will cost more. No specifics on how much more or what my alternatives are. Message below:

“We are excited to announce that many of our 2017 Bordeaux Futures orders are arriving from France. Since you placed your order, the U.S. government has instituted a 25% tariff that will impact many of the wines that are part of the Futures program. As such, this tariff will likely result in an increase in the outstanding balance on your order. We appreciate that this is a unique situation; as always, meeting our customers’ needs remains our top priority.

Please contact us directly at (855) 841-2752 or via email to discuss the effect of the tariffs respective to your wine orders. We know your time is valuable, so please contact us at your convenience.”

53

“We appreciate that this is a unique situation.” Do you appreciate it Ben? LOL.

I’d look carefully at the invoice you received with your 50% deposit.

54

Did you agree that the price was subject to change? Isn’t locking down a certain price before it has a chance to increase a big reason people of purchase the wine long before it’s physically available? It seems pretty shady to me, but I never purchased futures from TW, so I don’t know what the terms of the agreement are. If I didn’t agree that they could change the price on me, I’d make them give me the wine I paid for at the price we originally agreed upon.

55

If only we had an attorney somewhere on WB who could give a legal opinion on this…

56

I think we need a Zoom call…

57

[popcorn.gif]

58

Not recorded, of course…

59

Recorded and then delivered later with a 25% up charge.

But, 25% of free is still free. :slight_smile:

60

Yeah, that would be nice. Oh well.

I just looked at a Total invoice I received for a 2015 vintage order. It said:

Terms and Conditions: Your deposit includes estimated sales tax; when the sale is completed between Fall 2016 and Spring 2017, your order will be updated, if necessary, > to reflect the sales tax rates in effect at the time of delivery of the product to you> . Upon Total Wine & More’s receipt in the United States of the product your order specifies, we will process your credit card for your final payment. Such payment must be processed prior to delivery of your order to your designated store.

No other reservation of rights appeared in the invoice. In particular, it contains no reservation of the right to increase the amount due because the wine ended up costing more from the distributor, or because a trade war resulted in higher tariffs. An importation levy is not a “sales tax,” and I suspect (based on logic and knowledge of the English language and not as legal advice) a small claims court would agree.

If the same language appears on your invoice, I would have a friendly conversation with my local store manager, and when that does not work (it won’t) I’d as for the name and contact info for Total’s General Counsel.