Bite your tongue, Paul. Usseglio is DTM.
Speaking of biting, you bit. ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
Most Cambie consult wines don’t do anything for me. I really do like the 2009 P. Usseglio though.
According to both the Danish website and Cambie’s own website, he does not consult at Pierre Usseglio. At least since 07 the wines have been quite ripe, but not because of Cambie.
I haven’t had 2001. I really like 2004.
My favorite CNDP vintage remains 1998, but I have few left, and its probably a shade past its peak, for my taste preferences. And I generally like older Rhones more. And even though I’ve loved it, I think new money would be better off going into 2010 or 2016, if one was cellaring for another decade plus.
1998 was another great year for CdPs, and while it’s just outside Todd’s 20-year window, I’d put it up there with or a nose ahead of 2001.
Recently won some perfect-looking 1978 Mont Redon at auction. Here’s hoping the 78s make me forget the 98-01s.
I looked again at Harry Karis’s book and you’re right. I got confused with Clos du Mont-Olivet, who also make a nice traditional Cuvèe in addition to the so-called super Cuvèe. But at least I got Robert all riled up!
I think it would be interesting to know more about the actual wine making techniques that differentiate modern vs traditional in this discussion… for example during my visits in the early 2000’s I was struck by the difference between some of the operations:
Mont Redon, with an industrial seeming facility that could have been from any region in the world- use of tons of small barrels, new oak, etc
Beaucastel- with a massive concrete tanks that have been in use for many many years, no small barrels, old cave like facility
Pegau and their massive oak foudres…
I realize that this is just window dressing on all of what differentiates modern and “traditional” but curious what are the other key factors in the wine making choices that make this distinction
Vineyard practices are right up there to wit: Field blends, multiple harvest passes, green harvest, leaf thinning, biodynamic, machine or hand harvest, sorting techniques, time from picking to crushing, transport, etc.
to Arv R: Thank you so much for emphasizing what’s important. Sure, you can ruin wine in the cellar, but there’s no need to go to the trouble if you ruin it in the vineyard. I wrote this about Pegau in an earlier post:
Starting in the vineyard: Most old Chateauneuf vines have 4 - 6 arms. Pegau: 3.
Yields normally under 2 tons/acre (30 hectolitres/hectare).
Harvest the grapes by hand when they taste ripe.
To your specific points, speaking of Pegau, the only Chateauneuf producer I know well enough to comment:
Field blends: Most of Pegau’s old vineyards are mixed plantings, so field blends are built itn.
Multiple harvest passes: Rarely done at Pegau unless the weather is really unsettled.
Green harvest: A useful, sometimes necessary technique in many vineyards, but with 3 arms per vine and yields usually below 2 tons/acre, not necessary or done at Pegau.
Biodynamic - Pegau is organic, uncertified.
Machine or hand harvest - Pegau is harvested by hand.
Sorting techniques - Ugly grapes are left in the vineyard, so no.
Time from picking to crushing - Actually have never asked, but no more than an hour.
Side note: In my own vineyard, during the first harvest I found out that grapes from the younger vines were being heaped in the truck and it was a few hours from beginning of harvest until they got to the winery. It was an excellent vintage, the wine was fine for a few years, but wasn’t good for the long haul. It didn’t happen again.
Transport: At Pegau in small cagettes (or as we say in English, boxes), grapes not crushed until they get to the winery to be crushed.
Dan Kravitz
You need to try the 1981, Robert!
Oh, cool. I’ll track some down!
What about
Domaine De La Janasse? and
Roger Sabon? and
Boisrenard Beaurenard?
I just wanted to pop back into this thread and thank everyone for the comments and advice. Oddly enough, on the same day I wrote this post I ended up getting
6 x Clos Saint Jean Chateauneuf du Pape Vieilles Vignes 2015 from Last Bottle for $35 each. This feels like a misstep, but I have had buyers remorse from almost every Last Bottle purchase I’ve ever made. When will I learn?
Following along with the thread, it looks like I should stay the course with Pegau. I like Pegau; it has never done me wrong. Maybe it is time to go deeper rather than broader.
TW
Completely agree. This is a great wine! I wish I had some left.
IMO this is made for the modern palate. The wine isnt bad per se, but I certainly would drink them within the first 5-7 years before you run the risk of getting prune like flavors. Drink them for the fruit.
Technically, there is no such thing as 1981 Pegau. The wine at that time was Feraud et Fils. I don’t know that this was ever for sale in the US. For a time, you could still buy it , relabeled as Pegau Cuvee Laurence, I think, at the storefront Pegau has in the town of Chateauneuf, but I don’t know that they still have it. Any for sale in the US would have to be from someone who bought it there, unless Dan has some of his own stock.
IMHO the three most important factors to differ between traditional and modern is:
- no or only minor destemming
- no new oak
- natural yeasts
Further important traditional factors:
- combined fermentation of varieties
- length of cuvaison
- no or only light filtration
All other components differ significantly even between traditional producers: for elevation there are huge oak fudres, concrete tanks, small demi-muids and even used barrique, inox (for whites, for blending or storage prior to bottling), there are different cuvées (vineyard- or vine-selection) even at Beaucastel, Pegau, Rayas, Bois de Boursan, Bonneau …
… the vineyards are grown organically (certified or not) or traditionally - or in between, almost all producers do a selection of grapes (in fact it is even required bei AOC-regulations) … etc.
Good luck! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
In fact the 1981 Pegau is (imho) one of the two best CdPs in this great vintage - the other one is Rayas. 
We did compare Pegau 81 with Beaucastel - as well as with Bonneau Celestins … and always Pegau was (slightly) superior.
But of course one can be of different opinions.
Well, it depends on the definition.
When the wine was made (harvested/fermented) the domaine was still Feraud & Fils, that´s correct.
Domaine du Pegau was created in 1987 when Laurence joined her father. I´m not sure, but it is possible that a part of the vintage 1981 was still in barell then - and bottled during 1987/88.
However, I have only seen 1978 and 1979 Feraud & Fils-bottles, never a 1981. All 1981 I have seen had the Domaine du Pegau-label.
(On the other hand I have never seen a vintage prior to 1981 with a Pegau-label).
When I visited there the 1st time in 1990 I could buy 1988, 1985, 1983 and 1981 “Domaine du Pegau Reservée”, the latter in small quantities only. 1987/86 seemed to have been sold out - and most probably were only produced in very small quantities, the rest sold in bulk to negociants. But I have tasted it later at restaurant La Beaugravière.
BTW - that´s the origin of the designation “Reservée” - it was the part of the production (usually not the worst part I assume) which was bottled at the domaine … and NOT sold to negociants. Most of Feraud&Fils was sold to negoce, only a small partw as bottled at the domaine.
The old label read Leon Féraud … later Leon Féraud & Fils. I have photos of bottles from 1969, 1971, 1972 and 1974.
Pegau “Cuvée Laurence” 1983/85/88 was the same wine, only sold in the town shop with a different label. Starting in 1989 C.Laurence was the wine kept longer in fudre and bottled later.
I don´t know if a 1984 and 1982 (Pegau or Feraud) was ever bottled.