U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

[H_Wallace_Jr]

Hardy I can see from your style while you like Souhaut. I’m not sure how that wine fell off my radar, I guess two of my go-to retailers stopped carrying them (just checked). I need to get back at them. The gamay, by the way, is really good, unique and generally quite fresh and soulful.

Thank you- I love those wines and that family. The gamay is always a favorite. On a side note, one of the best blind tasting moments I’ve witnessed was Levi Dalton blinding this at a lunch at Arnot-Roberts about 5 years ago after never previously tasting the wine. Paraphrasing- “This doesn’t make anybody sense but it is Gamay from the Northern Rhone” (Ardeche, close enough).

I had my first L’Anglore a couple months ago in Paris, and I was scratching my head trying to think of which Bandol of finesse that it reminded of. Fast forward to two weeks ago, when I listened to your episode of IDTT for the first time… It hit me like a ton of bricks (in the best possible way) that it was the 2016 D&R Shake Ridge that it reminded me of!

Thanks so much. That is a huge compliment. Wait until you try the '19 Grenache.

Just did some searching, wow has the Souhaut gamay bumped up in price. I was grabbing it for $25 just a couple years ago and now it is $40+. That’s a harder sell when I have Thivin, a meaty style, and Bouland, which often feels like a Northern Rhône gamay, for sub-$30.

$40 is pretty strong pricing- Most places I see it are $30-$34. With the recent 25% tariffs, $30-$34 is the $25 of a few years ago.
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/herve+souhaut+dom+romaneaux+destezet+souteronne+gamay+igp+ardeche+de+pays+france/2018/usa

This wine scratches a different itch for me than Bojo.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Oh shoot, I was focused on 2016 vintage, a yummy one. Glad to see 2018 much cheaper but I’m uncertain about this vintage and it’s ripeness. Was just disappointed with Bouland’s flagship cuvee, Delys 1926.

[Neal.Mollen]

Great idea for a thread Robert. Reading with interest

[DougS]

Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).

[DougS]

Can you explain this a bit?

[Michael_Sterling]

Michael, I love the shout out for Marie Courtin. One of my favorite Champagne producers too, bottle after bottle. I too love the Chardonnay bottling called Eloquence. It was one of the best Champagnes I had in 2019.

Will have to taste your wines sometime…never tried them. Thanks for posting, too.

Frank, my wife nailed it when she said the Eloquence was like the feeling in the air right before a lightning strike. I think of that every time we open a bottle

[Frank_Murray_III]

Michael, I love the shout out for Marie Courtin. One of my favorite Champagne producers too, bottle after bottle. I too love the Chardonnay bottling called Eloquence. It was one of the best Champagnes I had in 2019.

Will have to taste your wines sometime…never tried them. Thanks for posting, too.

Frank, my wife nailed it when she said the Eloquence was like the feeling in the air right before a lightning strike. I think of that every time we open a bottle

My god, that is brilliant. You ought to send that to Dominique Moreau, who is the owner/winemaker for Marie Courtin. I bet she would dig hearing that, Michael.

[Robert.A.Jr]

I can see Hardy’s admiration for Souhaut. Popped one of his Mourvèdre tonight. Pure, transparent. Total soil-to-glass transfer, or as the AFWE snobs likes to say, STGT. This country bumpkin just says, “shucks, this here wine taste like fresh yardbird off the lawn”. I honestly have no idea what that means, but this wine is excellent.

[H_Wallace_Jr]

Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).

Sure. Please keep in mind I also love, collect, and drink a ton of wines made in the ways below.
We are almost always 100% Mourvèdre vs. blended (by AOC rules Bandol must be a blended wine)
We are 100% whole cluster vs. destemmed
Lots of whole berry fermentation / partial carbonic vs. traditional maceration
Lower octane- we are more often 13% or under vs. 14.5% and over
Shorter elevage (6-11 months for us) vs a mandated 20+ months in Bandol
Smaller vessels for elevage- we us 255L - 600L vs massive Foudre.

Our sites are radically different. With the exception of 1 of our vineyards, all of our D&R Mourvèdre vineyards are at higher elevation than Bandol and our vineyards are much further away from the coast. They are on mostly a mix of clay and limestone and we only have limestone (with granite vs. clay) on only 2 of our sites.

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.

Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.

[DougS]

Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).

Sure. Please keep in mind I also love, collect, and drink a ton of wines made in the ways below.
We are almost always 100% Mourvèdre vs. blended (by AOC rules Bandol must be a blended wine)
We are 100% whole cluster vs. destemmed
Lots of whole berry fermentation / partial carbonic vs. traditional maceration
Lower octane- we are more often 13% or under vs. 14.5% and over
Shorter elevage (6-11 months for us) vs a mandated 20+ months in Bandol
Smaller vessels for elevage- we us 255L - 600L vs massive Foudre.

Our sites are radically different. With the exception of 1 of our vineyards, all of our D&R Mourvèdre vineyards are at higher elevation than Bandol and our vineyards are much further away from the coast. They are on mostly a mix of clay and limestone and we only have limestone (with granite vs. clay) on only 2 of our sites.

Thanks!

[Howard_Cooper]

older Pradeaux are definite favs.

At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.

[Jim_Cowan]

Chablis.
A lot of it.
Best, Jim

[H_Wallace_Jr]

older Pradeaux are definite favs.

At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.

I’ve been drinking 89-94 and those are mostly in the zone. I recently opened an 01 and it was stunning, but still mostly primary (though the tannins had mellowed). If I have something substantial on the table, I’m also not afraid to pop one young. It is just a different experience.

[Howard_Cooper]

older Pradeaux are definite favs.

At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.

I’ve been drinking 89-94 and those are mostly in the zone. I recently opened an 01 and it was stunning, but still mostly primary (though the tannins had mellowed). If I have something substantial on the table, I’m also not afraid to pop one young. It is just a different experience.

Thanks, mine are still younger than that - by a good bit. I started buying it when we visited in 2007.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.

Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.

This is an interesting question. Depends upon whether you mean specifically in the cellar vs stylistic influence.

Almost all of my wines are directly influenced by the overseas wines that I admire.

I admire the restraint of Merkelbach and their disassociation from modern pressures toward opulence in wines. I admire the precision and clarity of Hexamer, and the texture and tranquility of Donnhoff and Molitor(which is why all of my Riesling based wines are done in wood). All of these things are a focus in what I seek for my own wines.

For Chardonnay, I admired Cameron’s Chardonnays locally and many white Burgundy producers. My move into Chardonnay in Oregon was 100% based upon the belief that I could make the quality of wine that I was tasting in my favorite Burgundian producers. My vineyard choices are 100% influenced towards moving the fruit to mature flavors at low brix, better dry extract, and maintaining higher levels of tartaric and modest levels of malic acid in the fruit. That’s definitely influenced by the entire array of my favorite overseas producers.

My choice to use high amounts of whole cluster was heavily influenced by Steve Doerner at Cristom. But he was heavily influenced by Dujac. Chandon de Briailles and De l’Arlot also influenced my choice to stems. And to my aspiration for red fruited wines both silky and structured.

Last, the Willamette Valley obviously has it’s own terroir, and farming is a big impact in fruit ripening. My choice to be 100% dry farmed is influenced by French producers who lose their AOC if they irrigate.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.

Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.

…I’s also say that if you use barriques for Pinot Noir, then you have been influenced by Burgundy…

[robert_creth]

My question, which would be difficult to get responses, is the reverse. Which American wines are drunk by old world and other new world wine makers. Do they even look this way?

[Joshua_Kates]

I’ve been told, back in the day, the Barolo producers beside Piedmont, drank only Burgundy (and that of course only occasionally). Great thread!
Thanks to everyone for posting.

[Mel_Knox]

A lot of winemakers I know drink their own wines…because they get a deal. They also drink their buddies’ wines, because they can do trades. This is important if you have a wife, kids and a mortgage. The other thing I see is that cab makers drink other cabs/merlots etc., including wines from Bordeaux. Pinot makers buy…guess what…Burgundy.

Winemakers in Burgundy don’t have to buy American/Australian/NZ/RSA wines because so many visitors leave their wines when they visit.