Vacuum Wine Saver....Physics Question

WINE TALK
1

If this thing REALLY took 95% of the air out of a bottle wouldn’t it take all of the aromatics with it? Could the wine even be in danger of boiling?

http://www.vinfinitysystem.com/index.php

2

A back of the envelope calculation gives me an estimated boiling point at a reduction of 95% in atmospheric pressure of under 20C/70F, however I consider it highly unlikely that the apparatus can hold that pressure more than momentarily.
In addition to the impracticality of a tight seal, there are disolved gases in the wine, and the water and alcohol vapor pressures building immediately after evacuation of the air.

P Hickner

3

So, in short, they’re full of shit?

4

It does take all of the aromatics with it. A useless device, worse than nothing at all.

5

See, this is why we need more physics and chemistry education in this country! [soap.gif] [snort.gif]

6

I think with young wines, if one wants to keep overnight, etc. it seems to work fine without causing problems. However, I have been burned by double decanting some older wines in order to take to a restaurant… then using the vacuvin and serving a few hours later. I agree, that it was probably worse than doing nothing.

7

This isn’t your garden variety Vacuu-Vin, it’s a commercial unit with an alleged 95% vacuum.

8

There is just no way this can develop enough of a vacuum to boil off anything of significance.

While it may remove minimal aromatics (you can often smell them when using a vacuvin) I’d rather that than the effects of oxidation.

Spoilage is a real cost in a BTG program, mostly by not selling that second glass.

Personally I’m a fan of inert gases but that comes at a higher cost with more complications.

Full disclosure: The owner/inventor is an old friend.

9

This is my initial question on this whole methodology: Does it ACTUALLY create a vacuum worth talking about. The answer is usually no. Inert Gas IS the way to go (plus lowering the temperature).

10

If a Vacu Vin can create enough vacuum (weak) to effectively preserve wine (short term) this must be more effective.
Truth is you aren’t looking for a high level of vacuum or you will change the wine, the aromatics, alcohol, so2 and the water can/will boil off (at different temperatures/rates). It’s not about pulling a great vacuum but about removing the bulk of oxygen.

I have a vacuum pump and a micron gauge…this could make a fun experiment.

Gas works well, not sure how it will lower the temp?

It has large recurring costs for commercial use…tanks need to get changed = pita.

11

I think he meant using gas, AND lowering the temperature to reduce the rate of oxidation for any oxygen still in solution.

Bruce

12

Yes, inert gas then into the fridge (including reds), works great.

13

Well the answer to that is the Vacu Vin doesn’t effectively preserve wine. (Anyone want to stand up for it?)

This machine here would be interesting to try but looks large and ferociously expensive, and is probably a PITA to maintain and repair. Mechanically simple inert-gas systems like winesaverpro.com still seem the way to go.

14

Boiling point of water at 0.05 bar (95% vacuum) is roughly 90F degrees. Probably doesn’t much matter if you remove the air (and aromatics) above the liquid with a vacuum pump (then presumably seal it), or sparge the top of the bottle with inert gas, you’re still removing whatever aromatics are there (though that’s probably a small fraction of what’s still in solution).

My approach is to stick the cork in, and put the bottle in the fridge. If a lot of the bottle is gone, it can help to pour it into a half bottle first.

15

Isn’t the whole “sucks out aromatics” argument bullshit anyway, since you are going to pour the wine out of the bottle, and at that time, most of those magically trapped phenols or whatever will escape?

While I don’t know much about this “commercial” unit, Spectator ran an article or two discussing the actual vaccum seal created by a vacuvin and that type of product. It was something like, within 2 hours, the percentage seal decreased to 21% or something. If you want to preserve your wine, buy a can of argon or nitrogen for $11, and get 120 uses out of it. It’s hard to get more cost effective than that, other than shoving it in the fridge (which works exceptionally well).

16

The point is that, IF you were actually creating a significant vacuum, the volatile temperature of most everything in the wine would drop to room temp and you would literally start out gassing alcohol and maybe even water which WOULD trash the wine. But, since they DON’T really give a real vacuum, it’s academic.

17

You’d think so, but somehow it does suck everything interesting out. Don’t ask me to explain how!

18

We do this also. With just the two of us (wife and self), I usually pour the first half of a fresh bottle right into a clean 375 and seal it, then pop it in the 'fridge. The resulting minimal head space gives excellent storage for a few days, at least.

19

A Vacu vin is effective, I’ve tested it against just a cork and against gas. I’ve done this using the same wine opened at the same time, tasted with several ITB folks for comparison, simply put they work. I do agree gas is the most effective solution and my preferred method. I’m not suggesting that vacu vin is a solution for most wine geeks to use at home, but for simpler wines for home/restaurant use is a HUGE improvement over nothing.

20

Interesting. Without such rigorous testing, I have been happy with short-term results (1-3 days) using a Vacuvin. I tend not to refrigerate because of the frustration of having to wait for the wine to come back up to serving temperature.