http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/dining/11pour.html?ref=dining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
interesting to read of a conversion. here is a write up i did following the 2007 Anderson Valley Pinot Fest where we were largely served 2005 wines:
Copain - OK, this winery needs Cherie Currie, Lita Ford and Joan Jett to reunite The Runaways and record a new version of “Cherrybomb” for their website and wines. at top volume too in full-on stage slut attire! needless to say not my cup of tea though the wines were widely hailed by others.
My post in Eric’s recent blog on The Pour:
Eric,
I am sorry, but your prejudice shows thru in your wine writing.
You begin by saying that "The main purpose of my recent trip to California, as I write in this week’s Pour column, was to visit pinot noir producers who are trying to make wines of finesse rather than of power. " You then go on to criticize California by saying "The dominant style of California pinot noir in the last decade or so has been soft, richly fruity and plush. " But I don’t see any evidence that you explored other California Pinot Noirs to see if that is the case, or if that is an incorrect assumption based on what you prefer to believe, rather than on what you actually tasted.
And, in fact, when I go back and search California Pinot tastings that you have written about in the past, I see that, most recently as May, 2007 you held a tasting of Santa Barbara Pinot Noirs and the favorites were…Siduri (thank you), Melville, APVin, Ambullneo, and Au Bon Climat. Four out of five you chose not to visit nor even to list. Why would that be? Because they are considered to be producers of “bigger style wines?” But they performed best in the tasting?
Next time I suggest you broaden the scope of your tasting and, instead of tasting only wines that you believe fit the style of wine you like, you taste…perhaps blind as I have offered to you, a range of Pinots from various styles and see what actually performs.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Nice article. Thanks for posting, Chris.
Adam,
I typed up a pretty lengthy post, but then saw yours and decided to re-type.
I am amazed that a supposed Pinot head typed up this drivel of an article and failed to ask some key questions when listening to some of the responses from winemakers listed. Burgundy is cooler than CA? News to most. “Burgundian” traditions? Right, starting with the 100% new oak use regardless if the vintage/vineyard can handle it, picking fruit that results in green tasting wines, etc, etc, etc.
Making Pinot from Bien Nacido fruit because of its cooler climate? Sure, I guess a good number of cooler vineyards simply do not exist (sarcasm here), and yet again, the reporter is clueless enough not to ask the question.
What does make wine “food friendly”? My group does nothing but FOOD with wine, for 10+ years now, some on the board know what we do and how, and yet most of the wines listed in the article perform badly with food, And without. Too much oak (or rather fruit not able to handle the amount of oak thrown at it), too much acidity (or rather acidity out of balance), unbalanced wines for various reasons, high pH, brett and other faults that render the wines undrinkable in some cases. Yet all claim they make “food wines”. Right.
What I really don’t understand is it seems some winemakers running out of marketing ideas and then they simply start pointing fingers at others and spouting things without being able to back them up (assuming, of course, they are talking with someone smart enough to understand the subject and ask tough questions). Of the list mentioned, I’d take Rivers-Marie, any day of the week, and pass on most others. No disrespect and nothing personal since I know a number of these guys, but after tasting these “Burgundian” efforts time and again, in a blind setup WITH PLENTY OF FOOD along, I know which wines work and those that don’t.
Same s__t, different day.
There is plenty wrong with this Eric Asimov article. Honestly, I appreciate the topic. California Pinot DID trend to too big a style for too long. But there are so many things neglected to be mentioned here. What bothers me is that this article essentially takes a snapshot of California Pinot two years ago.
I don’t know. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this piece. This applauds the style of California Pinot I prefer. But I have a hard time believing this is written without mentioning the marked trend toward lighter-styled Pinots during the 2005, 2006, and 2007 vintages. This is what happens when there is a casual observer who dips into the scene to make something out of … well … out of such limited information.
This is not to say that Asimov doesn’t make some excellent points. There are some wonderful winemakers interviewed, making great points about the terrific wines they make. I admire Wells and Kathleen and all the others interviewed. They have firm beliefs, which I respect, and they make wines that I like to drink. I would continue to drink them without this article.
But what of the great diversity of California Pinot? Asimov pretends that there is a tidal wave of consensus creating a particular type of Pinot. To me this is as heretic as the folks who proclaimed 2004 as the greatest vintage ever in California Pinot and anointed the big style of Pinot the only way to go.
No. I do not accept this. This article is a great example of dipping into an area without even bothering to do some research. Granted, those of us here who post about this know far more about California Pinot than Eric Asimov. But that doesn’t mean his article wasn’t ill-researched. It lacks balance. Even worse, it lacks knowledge of California Pinot and the rich battle that exists with the wines being produced.
This is hard post to write. Friends are quoted in that piece. What they say … I agree with. Friends also are not quoted. And, what’s worse, are given no outlet at all here. Asimov deserves to give them more given his powerful position.
IMO Asimov’s article suffers from a blind spot. What bothers me about such discussions about California Pinot is the false dichotomy that is often drawn between “food friendly” Pinots and “cocktail” Pinots. While I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that wine ultimately wants to go with food, no one in their right mind would pair Cabernet Sauvignon, no matter how elegant and balanced, with, say, oysters or sushi. One of the things I love about Pinot Noir is its versatility with regard to food. One can use a lighter-styled Pinot to pair with lighter dishes such as fish, a medium-styled Pinot to pair with medium dishes such as duck, and a richer-styled Pinot to pair with richer dishes such as lamb. Asimov (and others) suggests that Pinots with finesse and balance pair better with food, but what about Pinots with power and balance? And when one considers the suitability of such wines with food, mustn’t we consider first the very food itself?
I see no real name, so I am not sure who is posting (under Gutt), but…
Like I said, I know many of people mentioned and interviewed and as much as I agree with just a few of the things they said, I also find plenty to disagree with. Mainly, they ever so slightly make a dig at “the other camp”, yet if you do any research you will never see any negative remarks made by “the other camp” about the preferences and/or styles of those in the article. Never mind that Asimov is clueless about CA Pinot, in many areas this may cover, its this lack of fundamental understanding that precludes him from never realizing he’s been had. He actually gets paid for writing this? Amazing…
We had a big blow up a few years back with one of the culprits in the article and I thought it was settled, but it seems some people never leave well enough alone. And there are more now chiming in. Why? At least there is no more McDonald’s type of wine making reference nor that of Anna Nicole Smith, so at least we are making progress, albeit a miniscule one.
Last time we were discussing the subject I stated that there is nothing “Burgundian” about these wines save for barrels used. Soil, weather, root stock and clones, plant density, trellising and eventual yields used there and here are all different. Most any red Burg vineyard is interplanted with Pinot Blanc and I know of no such vineyard here in CA. They chaptalize, we don’t. We have mostly very clean cellars, cleanliness of winery and equipment is drilled into us from the get go. They? Although things are getting better there with new generations taking over. The only similarities I find between some producers here (at least a couple mentioned in the article) and those in Burgundy is lack of attention to cleaning winery equipment right after you are done using it. And making bretty wines. That’s about it. Oh, yes, and the barrels I already mentioned. But barrels don’t make a wine “Burgundian”.
I’ll be happy to assemble all the wines mentioned in the article and put them in a double blind setup, food to match, to disprove this BS once and for all. It is getting tiring and is not fair to consumers who then blindly spout this drivel left and right never realizing they have been used. A green wine tastes green, food or not. Oaky wine tastes oaky, food or not. Don’t tell me “my wine takes years to show itself”, either the wine is balanced and still drinkable when young, or its not. Bretty wine is still bretty, no matter what kind of food you throw at it unless it came from a garbage disposal. Unbalanced acidity or tannins, food or not, are still an issue.
I’ve had great wines, by every account and review, made from 30+ Brix, year in and year out, so don’t tell me wines made from ripe fruit don’t taste good. Or don’t go with food. They do and do so well. They are darlings of many on this board and others. Hell, how about First and Second Growths, anyone in the article heard of those? Routinely picked at high brix and then RO’d down?
Years ago, on a board that is no longer relevant, someone posted a question, “If you had to choose, would you choose fruit or winemaker?” I was the only one back then to say, I’ll take a winemaker each and every time. I still stand by this statement and belief. And a great winemaker won’t make excuses nor point fingers at others, at least not the ones that I know and I am privileged (and grateful) to know a few.
I wonder if there is a difference between “wanting to be burgundian” and “inspired by burgundy”. I dont think ill ever mistake the wines in the article with a great burg but that’s not meant to be an insult, I can understand taking inspiration from a style of wine but anyone with a palate isn’t going to make the mistake of comparing a great ca pinot (made in the burg style) to a great burg in a blind tasting.
to be honest, what I really enjoy is a winery that’s can produce both styles, a wine maker who is not stuck in creating wines in only one way.
btw oysters with gevery chambertin I heavenly 
sorry if this has weird spacing, typed on my phone
Love this graphic:
“no one in their right mind would pair Cabernet Sauvignon, no matter how elegant and balanced, with, say, oysters or sushi”
Does Bordeaux count? LOTS of high end sushi places also have lots of expensive Bordeaux (mostly because it is famous and expensive) and I see it being consumed all of the time with raw fish. I AGREE that that is ridiculous but there are two forces at work there: one driven by status and one driven by “I drink the wines I like with the food I like and I don’t care”.
Eric Ripert is known famously for drinking Bordeaux with everything, much to the exasperation of his somms. True, people will drink whatever they like with food, but that does not necessarily mean that the pairing is ideal. So if we can defend that practice, then why not permit people to drink unbalanced wines with food? What’s the difference? ![[dontknow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/2/259bbc27e64baab255bbf586025626180d3e97e8.gif "dontknow"){kind=small}
I enjoyed the read. Nothing new or overly interesting but enjoyable. Interesting the wines listed “on the lighter side”. I think that shows that Cali does not make pinot on the lighter side. I haven’t tasted them all but do regularly drink Arcadian and Rivers Marie and I would never consider those light, especially Rivers Marie when you consider texture. Same would go for Anthill Farms.
I am sorry stuff like this seems to upset some wine-makers … I guess it would me too if I were in their shoes … thankfully I am not … I just get to drink the stuff and don’t feel very influenced by an article like this. In fact it seemed drab. Where is the controversy of a few years back [blackeye.gif] I’m kidding.
I went on the biggest wine trek of my life when I decided to re-visit Cali pinot in the late 90s. By the mid 80s I was convinced it sucked other than a few producers. Thankfully not only has the bar been raised but different house styles have emerged and through the help of many, including wine-makers, my cellar has a far broader range of smells, flavors and textures. Glad that despite some dust ups, that I have many to choose from.
Jason
He is a friend of mine … and your I think … maybe he will reveal himself … although I don’t thin it is that hard to figure out.
J
OK, a few points. As Roberto and Paul pointed out, what people enjoy with their food may not make sense to others and I am sure our drinking preferences habits probably don’t make sense to them. For years in Oyster Bar at Grand Central in NY city, the best oyster bar that know of, had a customer who came in for lunch, day and day out. He ordered a couple dozen oysters (the selection there is amazing and changes daily) and some fish entree, then ordered a bottle of red, mostly a Bord. Whatever makes him happy, I say, and so did the restaurant crew.
Main reason I am simply appalled by the winemakers mentioned AND the reporter, if they still don’t get it, then maybe they should seek another line of work. It is very irresponsible of them, IMO, to use this argument. ANY wine can be matched with food and if they can’t, then it means they are either not adventurous in food or simply don’t know food to begin with. Or eat same dish, no matter how great, each and every night.
How many cases the wineries mentioned in the article make, combined? It pales in comparison to sales of 2BC. So, you tell me, WHO understands wine and food? I will be the last person around to tell anyone they should be drinking ____, its their palate and their money. How many of us here buy anything Bien Nacido?
Also, one thing that I failed to mentioned so far. Why is it that we, “the other side”, never fail to mention or recommend wines of those who are mentioned in the article? I often tell people to at least try the wine of some of those mentioned in the article. And almost never the other way around? Why such a dose of “attitude” on their part?
Rivers-Marie is mentioned in the article. I know Thomas well, at least I think I do, and I would be extremely surprised to find out that Asimov actually discussed this with Thomas and heard such statements/observations coming from Thomas.
PS. I thought this board has real names policy. When I registered, I was forced to change GregP to my full name, even though I indicated GregP is more than sufficient for “name recognition” on this board and beyond. No difference to me, but I’d like to go back to GregP if possible.
Roberto, us asians are all label chasers don’t worry about what we have in the restaurants =P
Greg, it is real name policy…we are working on getting them all changed, but for whatever reason it takes awhile. Have no fear though, we are on it
We have to notify each of the registrants in person, and they have to read the PM. If they don’t come back, there’s no way to enforce it, as they never see the PM.
This thread is becoming more and more productive 
I swear I had no ill intentions not having the real name up … already in the process of being changed.
Great comments, Jason.